[ Before you all wonder if I've lost my mind: no. This will serve as a test-case for auditing projects for hosting. This also means that politeness is *not* expected. To avoid conflict of interest ,)= I will not take part in this conversation unless clarification, etc is asked. ]
I'm requesting hosting for my project "Linedit".
Linedit is a Common Lisp line-editing library, licensed under a BSD-style license.
It is currently SBCL specific, and depends on termios via FFI. UFFI support will be added later.
I'm currently the only project member.
Linedit as currently available at:
http://random-state.net/files/linedit-latest.tar.gz
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus
[Apologies for duplicates.]
Mario Mommer mommer@igpm.rwth-aachen.de writes:
I wonder if the rule should be "if after 48h nobody objects, it is accepted"?
Sounds reasonble. Can you create a policy.txt (in the clo repository) so we don't forget these rules we make?
Erik.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:24:32PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote:
I wonder if the rule should be "if after 48h nobody objects, it is accepted"?
And have lispM2000-kool accepted because everybody is too busy to object?
As an alternative, I'd suggest that for every request someone has to play devil's advocate and say why it should NOT be accepted. Then the others can either say "geez, don't be silly" or "hmm. there's a point there".
Also, who are on this list currently? Me, Erik, Mario?
If so, I suggest we invite the others on the earlier email-circuit to join without votes: they get voices, but no votes if things ever degenerate to a shouting match.
Furthermore, I suppose we should have a terms of service somewhere that says that if they don't play nice we will kick them all the way to FORTRAN-land.
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus
nikodemus@random-state.net writes:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:24:32PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote:
I wonder if the rule should be "if after 48h nobody objects, it is accepted"?
And have lispM2000-kool accepted because everybody is too busy to object?
:)
Good point.
As an alternative, I'd suggest that for every request someone has to play devil's advocate and say why it should NOT be accepted. Then the others can either say "geez, don't be silly" or "hmm. there's a point there".
Well, I don't know. If there is nothing to be said, then nothing should be said, IMO. How do the sourceforge/savannah people do this?
Furthermore, I suppose we should have a terms of service somewhere that says that if they don't play nice we will kick them all the way to FORTRAN-land.
Again, how do sf/savannah do this? I bet you have to sign electronically some contract with them, absolving them from any responsability etc.
Should we seek legal advice?
Mario.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 05:46:35PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote:
As an alternative, I'd suggest that for every request someone has to play devil's advocate and say why it should NOT be accepted. Then the others can either say "geez, don't be silly" or "hmm. there's a point there".
Well, I don't know. If there is nothing to be said, then nothing should be said, IMO.
I'd say that there is *always* something to say. ;) Being nasty just takes some effort. But point taken.
How do the sourceforge/savannah people do this?
As far as I can tell (including personal experience with Savannah) they mostly check that the license is valid considering the dependencies, and that the project description seems like the a person making the application actually know what they are doing.
Also, my impression is that Savannah assigns someone to vet each request -- and that the criteria vary from people to people.
Furthermore, I suppose we should have a terms of service somewhere that says that if they don't play nice we will kick them all the way to FORTRAN-land.
Again, how do sf/savannah do this? I bet you have to sign electronically some contract with them, absolving them from any responsability etc.
If by electronically signing you mean "by submitting this form you agree to ..." or equivalent, yes.
Propos legal advice is something I don't think we either need or can afford. However, something along the lines of
Common-lisp.net is run and funded by volunteers, as they see fit.
If people runnign of Common-lisp.net see fit to delete you project and replace it with mp3's of heavy metal played backwards you have probably earned it.
If people runnign Common-lisp.net spill coffee on their keyboard and cause a short circuit that emties all your back account, it's solely your own fault due to associating with a computer language not made for human consumption.
Moreover:
By using the hosting services ("service") of Common-lisp.net you agree that the service is provided "as is",
... insert few clauses from any terms of service lying around the net ...
But then, again, I live in a country that has an actual legal system as opposed to the bizarre inventions used in some coutries. ;)
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus
Nikodemus Siivola nikodemus@random-state.net writes:
How do the sourceforge/savannah people do this?
As far as I can tell (including personal experience with Savannah) they mostly check that the license is valid considering the dependencies, and that the project description seems like the a person making the application actually know what they are doing.
I assume they make sure their bases are covered whenever something like the d1g1tal m1l3nium c0pyr1ght h4ck hits the fan.
Also, my impression is that Savannah assigns someone to vet each request -- and that the criteria vary from people to people.
I think that this would be overkill for us. We can adopt something like this later if we feel it is necessary.
Again, how do sf/savannah do this? I bet you have to sign electronically some contract with them, absolving them from any responsability etc.
If by electronically signing you mean "by submitting this form you agree to ..." or equivalent, yes.
Yes, that was what I meant.
Propos legal advice is something I don't think we either need or can afford. However, something along the lines of
Common-lisp.net is run and funded by volunteers, as they see fit.
If people runnign of Common-lisp.net see fit to delete you project and replace it with mp3's of heavy metal played backwards you have probably earned it.
If people runnign Common-lisp.net spill coffee on their keyboard and cause a short circuit that emties all your back account, it's solely your own fault due to associating with a computer language not made for human consumption.
:))
Something like that, but in a form which is humor-impaired-proof. In essence, it should say thet we can do anything, with the understanding that we are responsible people and plan to do the right thing as often as humanely possible:
Common-lisp.net is run and funded by volunteers, as they see fit. By using this site you accept the following terms and conditions.
* We do not have any obligation of accepting your project on any grounds.
* We can do anything with whatever data you have in common-lisp.net, for whatever reason.
* You will not hold us responsible before the law for anything in relation to common-lisp.net.
Moreover:
By using the hosting services ("service") of Common-lisp.net you agree that the service is provided "as is",
... insert few clauses from any terms of service lying around the net ...
... and which can be borrowed just like that ...
But then, again, I live in a country that has an actual legal system as opposed to the bizarre inventions used in some coutries. ;)
On what planet are you? Certainly not on earth, the densest planet of the solar system. ;)
...but yes, I've heard that up there they actually have quite sensible laws, lawyers and judges.
Regards, Mario.
P.S: I'll be back online on monday. Have a nice weekend!
Mario Mommer mommer@igpm.rwth-aachen.de writes:
* We can do anything with whatever data you have in common-lisp.net, for whatever reason.
No, we cannot violate their license, can we?
...but yes, I've heard that up there they actually have quite sensible laws, lawyers and judges.
Let's make it short and sweet. To the point without belaboring anyone. Essentially:
- We can deny your request as we see fit.
- If we screw up your data don't hold us accountable.
- We can recind our offer of hosting to you at any time for whatever reason.
- Don't do anything illegal on/with the box.
Erik.
Erik Enge erik@nittin.net writes:
No, we cannot violate their license, can we?
And their copyright, I presume.
Erik.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 01:04:41PM -0400, Erik Enge wrote:
Let's make it short and sweet. To the point without belaboring anyone.
Here's my attempt at hosting terms, based on both Erik's and Mario's suggestions:
"Common-lisp.net is run and funded by volunteers, as they see fit. By using this site and you accepr the following terms and conditions:
Term Common-lisp.net is used to refer to both the site and the volunteers running the site.
* Common-lisp.net is not under any obligation to accept your hosting request, or any other service request you may make.
* Common-lisp.net may discontinue any service without prior notice.
* Common-lisp.net is not responsible for any lossage or corruption of hosted data, whether accidental or deliberate.
* Using services provided by Common-lisp.net for any illegal activities is grounds for immeadiate termination of any services provided."
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus
Nikodemus Siivola nikodemus@random-state.net writes:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 01:04:41PM -0400, Erik Enge wrote:
Let's make it short and sweet. To the point without belaboring anyone.
Here's my attempt at hosting terms, based on both Erik's and Mario's suggestions:
"Common-lisp.net is run and funded by volunteers, as they see fit. By using this site and you accepr the following terms and conditions:
Term Common-lisp.net is used to refer to both the site and the volunteers running the site.
Common-lisp.net is not under any obligation to accept your hosting request, or any other service request you may make.
Common-lisp.net may discontinue any service without prior notice.
Common-lisp.net is not responsible for any lossage or corruption of hosted data, whether accidental or deliberate.
Using services provided by Common-lisp.net for any illegal activities is grounds for immeadiate termination of any services provided."
I would either drop the last point, or instead write that
* The user is responsible for ensuring that all information he/she puts on common-lisp.net is not illegal.
This sounds a bit like the "do not drink" warnings on motor-oil bottles, but covers our bases without making us responsible for taking down anything. The reason is that we might well not know for some time, so we cannot guarantee anything, and we might be all on vacation or something when it hits. The user should be the only one responsible if illegal content (whatever that might be) ever enters the site.
Other than that, I think it is a fairly reasonable "terms of use" list.
Mario.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 12:11:33PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote:
Something like that, but in a form which is humor-impaired-proof. In essence, it should say thet we can do anything, with the understanding that we are responsible people and plan to do the right thing as often as humanely possible:
Common-lisp.net is run and funded by volunteers, as they see fit. By using this site you accept the following terms and conditions.
* We do not have any obligation of accepting your project on any grounds. * We can do anything with whatever data you have in common-lisp.net, for whatever reason. * You will not hold us responsible before the law for anything in relation to common-lisp.net.
Ohh. Aah! Very good. As you hinted at, just add postscript:
"We are, however, reasonable people and try to do The Right Thing as often as we can.
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus
-
Erik Enge -
erik-nittin＠imeme.net -
Mario Mommer -
Nikodemus Siivola -
nikodemus＠random-state.net