On 9/23/16 Sep 23 -9:52 AM, Faré wrote:
1- The requirement to always use make-operation currently only applies to code within ASDF itself and well-behaved extensions. Before you enforce it more widely, you have to make sure no one in Quicklisp does it. You could have shared initialize check that: a) no instance of that class with given initargs exists yet in *operations* and hopefully b) there initargs are always null (goodbye, make-build!)
Your docs clearly say that these MUST be built this way. If you want to say "must" then I will enforce "must." If you want "may," we can have "may" as in "For more efficient functioning, please use MAKE-OPERATION to create all operation instances."
Please articulate why you say "All operation instances MUST be created through this function"? I like the idea of having a clean API, but I also note that there is code that effectively interns the results of MAKE-OPERATION. What is the design rationale for this? Do you wish to be able to EQ-compare them? If not, why do you intern these objects in the *OPERATIONS* table? Is it really so expensive to create an OPERATION that we need to memoize? Or is it because we simply create so many, and this improves GC behavior?
WRT Quicklisp: I do NOT accept that I have to check all of Quicklisp for ANYTHING. I am willing to be INFORMED by results of such checks, but I do NOT have time to make such checks.
I don't expect other people to test my SIFT code, and I don't have time to check arbitrary CL libraries, much less arbitrary CL libraries on arbitrary implementations and operating systems.
So, no. If someone else wants to test other things.
2- No, there was never a requirement that defsystem should only be used within a .asd. Actually, the test system relies heavily on the opposite. The requirement is that .asd files be loaded in the correct context, by load-asd -- notably, the correct *package* must be bound, the correct readtable, etc.
Unfortunately, DEFSYSTEM is the only entry point we can check. So if LOAD-ASD is important, that's the only place I can check it. What else would you have me do? Check *load-truename* for "asd"?
Look, if you want to push this, then you can't object to my enforcing it. If you don't want to push this, then we should make sure DEFSYSTEM works outside the context. But I don't want to field bug reports where someone says "I tried to define this system and it didn't work," and
In the olden days, we relied on programmers to make sure that the context for DEFSYSTEM reading was appropriate. That was a pain for them sometimes, but it was clear, and it kept ASDF simple.
At some point, ASDF decided to take on the burden of establishing the context for DEFSYSTEM reading. OK, not my choice, but a reasonable decision. But I flatly refuse to maintain *both* the DWIMing in LOAD-ASD *and* DEFSYSTEM execution in arbitrary contexts. And as a programmer, I don't want ASDF to let me evaluate a DEFSYSTEM form only to beat me up because some invisible context, only apparent through reading the code, means that it doesn't work.
Pick one, DWIMing, or freestanding execution, but you get only one.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 09:49 Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.net mailto:rpgoldman@sift.net> wrote:
I have been working on enforcing assumptions recently added to the ASDF docs. Specifically, that OPERATION instances only be created by MAKE-OPERATION and SYSTEMs only be parsed inside LOAD-ASD. I should have a merge request up for review soon, but find that it's more tricky than I expected, because we don't even play by the rules ourselves! Specifically, there are calls to MAKE-INSTANCE on OPERATIONs in the ASDF codebase itself. Cheers, r