Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files (`clinit.cl`, `.sbclrc`, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single `lisp-config.lisp` file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found [here](https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory).
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in [uiop/configuration.lisp](https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.l...). It looks like invoking the functions `uiop:xdg-config-home` and `uiop:xdg-config-pathnames` might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of `(uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/")` -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into `common-lisp.net` so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files (clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory.
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files (clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory .
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp . It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory.
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
--
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti (marco.antoniotti@unimib.it(mailto:marco.antoniotti@unimib.it)) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.info(mailto:rpgoldman@sift.info)> wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.info(mailto:rpgoldman@sift.info)> wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files (clinit.cl(http://clinit.cl), .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here(https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory).
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp(https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.l...). It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net(http://common-lisp.net) so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
-- Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti (marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory.
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
--
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable `asdf:*default-source-registries*` that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand [source-registry.lisp](https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4...).
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti (marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory .
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp . It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
--
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti (marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory.
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
--
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti (marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory .
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp . It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
--
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
Hi
CLAD can be used for *any* Mac/Windows/UN*X configuration. The current limitations are that it assumes "personal" configurations and not "system wide/admin accessible only locations".
The issue is that, as soon as ASDF gets loaded, it should load CLAD as a minimal prerequisite. At that point you have the CLAD package present and you can issue a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF")
or even a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF" :impl-dependent t)
And you will have the, e.g., "~/Library/Common Lisp/ASDF/" ready on a Mac, or the "C:/Users/MeMyself/AppData/Roaming/Common Lisp/ASDF/LispWorks/" ready on Windows (10, and 11 for sure).
Is that what you want?
I did write this thingy because there was a pesky configuration issue with - another shameless plus - HELambdaP (https://helambdap.sf.net). I believe it solved the problem in a rather general way.
Cheers
Marco
PS Of course there is another rabbit hole to be handled - or avoided :) What you REALLY want to have in the "ASDF loading code" is:
(load-if-possible "CLAD-STUFF") (funcall (find-symbol (string '#:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder) "CLAD") "ASDF")
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 3:49 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti ( marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg,
Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well.
A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!).
That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory.
I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual:
Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements.
The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box?
I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others.
It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn).
Good luck! R
On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote:
Good evening Robert,
Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess.
Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid.
I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing.
I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/
Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/")
Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well.
I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success:
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
c:\Users\Greg\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\
c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\
If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well.
Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W!
Cheers
Greg
--
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
Ah, pleasure to learn of another fellow (symbol-name '#:foo) enjoyer :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 10:18 AM Marco Antoniotti marco.antoniotti@unimib.it wrote:
Hi
CLAD can be used for *any* Mac/Windows/UN*X configuration. The current limitations are that it assumes "personal" configurations and not "system wide/admin accessible only locations".
The issue is that, as soon as ASDF gets loaded, it should load CLAD as a minimal prerequisite. At that point you have the CLAD package present and you can issue a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF")
or even a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF" :impl-dependent t)
And you will have the, e.g., "~/Library/Common Lisp/ASDF/" ready on a Mac, or the "C:/Users/MeMyself/AppData/Roaming/Common Lisp/ASDF/LispWorks/" ready on Windows (10, and 11 for sure).
Is that what you want?
I did write this thingy because there was a pesky configuration issue with
- another shameless plus - HELambdaP (https://helambdap.sf.net). I
believe it solved the problem in a rather general way.
Cheers
Marco
PS Of course there is another rabbit hole to be handled - or avoided :) What you REALLY want to have in the "ASDF loading code" is:
(load-if-possible "CLAD-STUFF") (funcall (find-symbol (string '#:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder) "CLAD") "ASDF")
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 3:49 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti ( marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you?
On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
> Dear Greg, > > Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post > on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for > moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to > the group, I am responding to the list as well. > > A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a > decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier > to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( > clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one > single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through > multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything > I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!). > > That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG > standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to > either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to > other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here > https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory. > > I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text > from the ASDF manual: > > Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to > do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the > environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in > synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see > uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements. > > The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp > https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. > It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and > uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is > looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry > above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for > configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe see > what that evaluates to on your Windows box? > > I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the > answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information > will be available to others. > > It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a > Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net > so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I > note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have > access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it > (nor do I have the time to learn). > > Good luck! > R > > On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote: > > Good evening Robert, > > Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF > matters. > I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might > see it, I confess. > > Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid. > > I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must > receive lots of this sort of thing. > > I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux > directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/ > > Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file > gb-source.conf > with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/") > > Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well. > > I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all > without success: > > > c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\ > > c:\Users\Greg\ > > c:\Users\Greg\AppData\ > > c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\ > > If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" > asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well. > > Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W! > > Cheers > > Greg > > --
Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
Even easier!
"FOO"
... assuming the usual rules.
Cheers
MA
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 5:55 PM Wilfredo Velazquez zulu.inuoe@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, pleasure to learn of another fellow (symbol-name '#:foo) enjoyer :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 10:18 AM Marco Antoniotti marco.antoniotti@unimib.it wrote:
Hi
CLAD can be used for *any* Mac/Windows/UN*X configuration. The current limitations are that it assumes "personal" configurations and not "system wide/admin accessible only locations".
The issue is that, as soon as ASDF gets loaded, it should load CLAD as a minimal prerequisite. At that point you have the CLAD package present and you can issue a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF")
or even a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF" :impl-dependent t)
And you will have the, e.g., "~/Library/Common Lisp/ASDF/" ready on a Mac, or the "C:/Users/MeMyself/AppData/Roaming/Common Lisp/ASDF/LispWorks/" ready on Windows (10, and 11 for sure).
Is that what you want?
I did write this thingy because there was a pesky configuration issue with - another shameless plus - HELambdaP (https://helambdap.sf.net). I believe it solved the problem in a rather general way.
Cheers
Marco
PS Of course there is another rabbit hole to be handled - or avoided :) What you REALLY want to have in the "ASDF loading code" is:
(load-if-possible "CLAD-STUFF") (funcall (find-symbol (string '#:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder) "CLAD") "ASDF")
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 3:49 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti ( marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :)
CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) (Or UIOP)
But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file.
Cheers
MA
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
> I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a Catch-22? > You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't use CLAD to > configure ASDF, can you? > > On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote: > > Ahem. Shameless plug: > https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD > > Cheers > > MA > > > On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info > wrote: > >> Dear Greg, >> >> Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post >> on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for >> moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to >> the group, I am responding to the list as well. >> >> A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a >> decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier >> to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( >> clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one >> single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through >> multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything >> I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!). >> >> That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG >> standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to >> either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to >> other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here >> https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory. >> >> I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text >> from the ASDF manual: >> >> Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to >> do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the >> environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in >> synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see >> uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements. >> >> The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp >> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. >> It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and >> uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is >> looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry >> above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for >> configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe >> see what that evaluates to on your Windows box? >> >> I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the >> answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information >> will be available to others. >> >> It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a >> Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into common-lisp.net >> so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I >> note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have >> access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it >> (nor do I have the time to learn). >> >> Good luck! >> R >> >> On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote: >> >> Good evening Robert, >> >> Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF >> matters. >> I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might >> see it, I confess. >> >> Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid. >> >> I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must >> receive lots of this sort of thing. >> >> I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux >> directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/ >> >> Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file >> gb-source.conf >> with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/") >> >> Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well. >> >> I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all >> without success: >> >> >> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\ >> >> c:\Users\Greg\ >> >> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\ >> >> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\ >> >> If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" >> asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well. >> >> Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W! >> >> Cheers >> >> Greg >> >> -- Marco Antoniotti https://dcb.disco.unimib.it
That's the thing with (symbol-name '#:foo), it relies on no such assumptions. Of note, consider Allegro's "Modern Mode":
https://franz.com/support/tech_corner/modern.mode.html
Whether I agree with it or not, using the `symbol-name` version makes me not have to think about any of these things further and carry on with my life. But that's just like, my opinion, man
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 1:00 PM Marco Antoniotti marco.antoniotti@unimib.it wrote:
Even easier!
"FOO"
... assuming the usual rules.
Cheers
MA
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 5:55 PM Wilfredo Velazquez zulu.inuoe@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, pleasure to learn of another fellow (symbol-name '#:foo) enjoyer :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 10:18 AM Marco Antoniotti < marco.antoniotti@unimib.it> wrote:
Hi
CLAD can be used for *any* Mac/Windows/UN*X configuration. The current limitations are that it assumes "personal" configurations and not "system wide/admin accessible only locations".
The issue is that, as soon as ASDF gets loaded, it should load CLAD as a minimal prerequisite. At that point you have the CLAD package present and you can issue a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF")
or even a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF" :impl-dependent t)
And you will have the, e.g., "~/Library/Common Lisp/ASDF/" ready on a Mac, or the "C:/Users/MeMyself/AppData/Roaming/Common Lisp/ASDF/LispWorks/" ready on Windows (10, and 11 for sure).
Is that what you want?
I did write this thingy because there was a pesky configuration issue with - another shameless plus - HELambdaP (https://helambdap.sf.net). I believe it solved the problem in a rather general way.
Cheers
Marco
PS Of course there is another rabbit hole to be handled - or avoided :) What you REALLY want to have in the "ASDF loading code" is:
(load-if-possible "CLAD-STUFF") (funcall (find-symbol (string '#:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder) "CLAD") "ASDF")
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 3:49 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-)
-- Robert P. Goldman
On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti ( marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote:
> Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :) > > CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files (just > because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No ASDF! :) > (Or UIOP) > > But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file. > > Cheers > > MA > > > > On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info > wrote: > >> I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a >> Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't >> use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you? >> >> On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote: >> >> Ahem. Shameless plug: >> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD >> >> Cheers >> >> MA >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Greg, >>> >>> Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your >>> post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for >>> moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to >>> the group, I am responding to the list as well. >>> >>> A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a >>> decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier >>> to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( >>> clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one >>> single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through >>> multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything >>> I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!). >>> >>> That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG >>> standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to >>> either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to >>> other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here >>> https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory. >>> >>> I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text >>> from the ASDF manual: >>> >>> Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to >>> do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the >>> environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in >>> synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see >>> uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements. >>> >>> The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp >>> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. >>> It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and >>> uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF is >>> looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry >>> above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for >>> configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe >>> see what that evaluates to on your Windows box? >>> >>> I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the >>> answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information >>> will be available to others. >>> >>> It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift >>> a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into >>> common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on >>> this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at >>> all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I >>> wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn). >>> >>> Good luck! >>> R >>> >>> On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote: >>> >>> Good evening Robert, >>> >>> Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF >>> matters. >>> I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you >>> might see it, I confess. >>> >>> Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid. >>> >>> I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must >>> receive lots of this sort of thing. >>> >>> I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux >>> directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/ >>> >>> Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file >>> gb-source.conf >>> with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/") >>> >>> Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well. >>> >>> I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all >>> without success: >>> >>> >>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\ >>> >>> c:\Users\Greg\ >>> >>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\ >>> >>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\ >>> >>> If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" >>> asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well. >>> >>> Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W! >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> -- > Marco Antoniotti > https://dcb.disco.unimib.it >
Yeah. I remember reporting the bug on C.L.L.
"The bug" being Franz's "Modern Mode" :) :) :) :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 7:05 PM Wilfredo Velazquez zulu.inuoe@gmail.com wrote:
That's the thing with (symbol-name '#:foo), it relies on no such assumptions. Of note, consider Allegro's "Modern Mode":
https://franz.com/support/tech_corner/modern.mode.html
Whether I agree with it or not, using the `symbol-name` version makes me not have to think about any of these things further and carry on with my life. But that's just like, my opinion, man
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 1:00 PM Marco Antoniotti < marco.antoniotti@unimib.it> wrote:
Even easier!
"FOO"
... assuming the usual rules.
Cheers
MA
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 5:55 PM Wilfredo Velazquez zulu.inuoe@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, pleasure to learn of another fellow (symbol-name '#:foo) enjoyer :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 10:18 AM Marco Antoniotti < marco.antoniotti@unimib.it> wrote:
Hi
CLAD can be used for *any* Mac/Windows/UN*X configuration. The current limitations are that it assumes "personal" configurations and not "system wide/admin accessible only locations".
The issue is that, as soon as ASDF gets loaded, it should load CLAD as a minimal prerequisite. At that point you have the CLAD package present and you can issue a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF")
or even a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF" :impl-dependent t)
And you will have the, e.g., "~/Library/Common Lisp/ASDF/" ready on a Mac, or the "C:/Users/MeMyself/AppData/Roaming/Common Lisp/ASDF/LispWorks/" ready on Windows (10, and 11 for sure).
Is that what you want?
I did write this thingy because there was a pesky configuration issue with - another shameless plus - HELambdaP (https://helambdap.sf.net). I believe it solved the problem in a rather general way.
Cheers
Marco
PS Of course there is another rabbit hole to be handled - or avoided :) What you REALLY want to have in the "ASDF loading code" is:
(load-if-possible "CLAD-STUFF") (funcall (find-symbol (string '#:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder) "CLAD") "ASDF")
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 3:49 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, it's too late).
I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp .
On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Sure.
I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start?
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
> The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read > its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-) > > -- > Robert P. Goldman > > On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti ( > marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote: > >> Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :) >> >> CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files >> (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No >> ASDF! :) (Or UIOP) >> >> But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file. >> >> Cheers >> >> MA >> >> >> >> On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info >> wrote: >> >>> I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a >>> Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't >>> use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you? >>> >>> On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote: >>> >>> Ahem. Shameless plug: >>> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> MA >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Greg, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your >>>> post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for >>>> moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to >>>> the group, I am responding to the list as well. >>>> >>>> A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than >>>> a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier >>>> to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( >>>> clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one >>>> single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt through >>>> multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything >>>> I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!). >>>> >>>> That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG >>>> standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to >>>> either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to >>>> other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here >>>> https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory. >>>> >>>> I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of >>>> text from the ASDF manual: >>>> >>>> Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible >>>> to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on >>>> the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully >>>> in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see >>>> uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements. >>>> >>>> The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp >>>> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. >>>> It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and >>>> uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF >>>> is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry >>>> above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for >>>> configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe >>>> see what that evaluates to on your Windows box? >>>> >>>> I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the >>>> answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information >>>> will be available to others. >>>> >>>> It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift >>>> a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into >>>> common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on >>>> this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at >>>> all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I >>>> wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn). >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> R >>>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote: >>>> >>>> Good evening Robert, >>>> >>>> Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF >>>> matters. >>>> I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you >>>> might see it, I confess. >>>> >>>> Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid. >>>> >>>> I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must >>>> receive lots of this sort of thing. >>>> >>>> I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux >>>> directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/ >>>> >>>> Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the >>>> file gb-source.conf >>>> with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/") >>>> >>>> Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is >>>> well. >>>> >>>> I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all >>>> without success: >>>> >>>> >>>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\ >>>> >>>> c:\Users\Greg\ >>>> >>>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\ >>>> >>>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\ >>>> >>>> If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" >>>> asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well. >>>> >>>> Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W! >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> -- >> Marco Antoniotti >> https://dcb.disco.unimib.it >> >
-- Wilfredo Velázquez-Rodríguez
... actually, "the bug" is the ANSI spec :) :) :) :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 7:06 PM Marco Antoniotti marco.antoniotti@unimib.it wrote:
Yeah. I remember reporting the bug on C.L.L.
"The bug" being Franz's "Modern Mode" :) :) :) :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 7:05 PM Wilfredo Velazquez zulu.inuoe@gmail.com wrote:
That's the thing with (symbol-name '#:foo), it relies on no such assumptions. Of note, consider Allegro's "Modern Mode":
https://franz.com/support/tech_corner/modern.mode.html
Whether I agree with it or not, using the `symbol-name` version makes me not have to think about any of these things further and carry on with my life. But that's just like, my opinion, man
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 1:00 PM Marco Antoniotti < marco.antoniotti@unimib.it> wrote:
Even easier!
"FOO"
... assuming the usual rules.
Cheers
MA
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 5:55 PM Wilfredo Velazquez zulu.inuoe@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, pleasure to learn of another fellow (symbol-name '#:foo) enjoyer :)
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 10:18 AM Marco Antoniotti < marco.antoniotti@unimib.it> wrote:
Hi
CLAD can be used for *any* Mac/Windows/UN*X configuration. The current limitations are that it assumes "personal" configurations and not "system wide/admin accessible only locations".
The issue is that, as soon as ASDF gets loaded, it should load CLAD as a minimal prerequisite. At that point you have the CLAD package present and you can issue a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF")
or even a
(clad:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder "ASDF" :impl-dependent t)
And you will have the, e.g., "~/Library/Common Lisp/ASDF/" ready on a Mac, or the "C:/Users/MeMyself/AppData/Roaming/Common Lisp/ASDF/LispWorks/" ready on Windows (10, and 11 for sure).
Is that what you want?
I did write this thingy because there was a pesky configuration issue with - another shameless plus - HELambdaP (https://helambdap.sf.net). I believe it solved the problem in a rather general way.
Cheers
Marco
PS Of course there is another rabbit hole to be handled - or avoided :) What you REALLY want to have in the "ASDF loading code" is:
(load-if-possible "CLAD-STUFF") (funcall (find-symbol (string '#:ensure-app-or-library-data-folder) "CLAD") "ASDF")
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 3:49 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
I was just answering what I thought was your question -- could CLAD be used as a source for ASDF configuration.
On 4 Jun 2023, at 15:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Hi Robert,
AFAIU this is the configuration of ASDF itself, when loading in a fresh CL. I think we are not clear about the timing of what should be loaded when.
CLAD does not need ASDF or UIOP. It just has a .asd file because Quicklisp asks for it.
Cheers
MA
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 9:00 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.net wrote:
> TBQH, I am not as sure as I should be. I try to avoid all the > configuration that happens while ASDF loads, so that I configure only > *after* the load is complete, at a point where I can watch what > goes on. As I have said before, I don't like the configuration that uses > config files, environment variables or magic directories, because it's > impossible to debug (by the time ASDF is loaded and can be instrumented, > it's too late). > > I believe the right thing would be for you to figure out how to add > an entry to the variable asdf:*default-source-registries* that is a > function that will collect the appropriate configuration information. But I > don't claim to fully understand source-registry.lisp > https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/9c7f1b76ca8e820c020a3ec3aeb4b507ab15aa34/source-registry.lisp > . > > On 4 Jun 2023, at 3:29, Marco Antoniotti wrote: > > Sure. > > I am not privy to ASDF bootstrap. Where would you start? > > MA > > > On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:41 AM Robert P. Goldman < > rpgoldman@sift.net> wrote: > >> The next step would be to add an ASDF plug-in so that ASDF can read >> its configuration from a CLAD set up…. :-) >> >> -- >> Robert P. Goldman >> >> On June 3, 2023 at 16:56:53, Marco Antoniotti ( >> marco.antoniotti@unimib.it) wrote: >> >>> Wellll. You need a CL to load ASDF, don’t you? :) >>> >>> CLAD is minimal and barebones. You can load it from two files >>> (just because the DEFPACKAGE is separate) and it’s there. Look ma! No >>> ASDF! :) (Or UIOP) >>> >>> But I see your point. Time to add a clad-setup.lisp file. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> MA >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 at 23:10, Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I do like the idea of CLAD, but in this case isn't there a >>>> Catch-22? You need to configure ASDF in order to load CLAD, so you can't >>>> use CLAD to configure ASDF, can you? >>>> >>>> On 3 Jun 2023, at 10:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote: >>>> >>>> Ahem. Shameless plug: >>>> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> MA >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman < >>>> rpgoldman@sift.info> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Greg, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your >>>>> post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for >>>>> moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to >>>>> the group, I am responding to the list as well. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than >>>>> a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier >>>>> to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files ( >>>>> clinit.cl, .sbclrc, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one >>>>> single lisp-config.lisp file), instead of having to hunt >>>>> through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take >>>>> anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist >>>>> approves!). >>>>> >>>>> That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG >>>>> standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to >>>>> either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to >>>>> other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here >>>>> https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory. >>>>> >>>>> I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of >>>>> text from the ASDF manual: >>>>> >>>>> Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible >>>>> to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on >>>>> the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully >>>>> in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see >>>>> uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements. >>>>> >>>>> The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp >>>>> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp. >>>>> It looks like invoking the functions uiop:xdg-config-home and >>>>> uiop:xdg-config-pathnames might help you figure out where ASDF >>>>> is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry >>>>> above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for >>>>> configs in the value of (uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/") -- maybe >>>>> see what that evaluates to on your Windows box? >>>>> >>>>> I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find >>>>> the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the >>>>> information will be available to others. >>>>> >>>>> It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would >>>>> gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into >>>>> common-lisp.net so that the community doesn't have to rely on >>>>> this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at >>>>> all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I >>>>> wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn). >>>>> >>>>> Good luck! >>>>> R >>>>> >>>>> On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Good evening Robert, >>>>> >>>>> Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF >>>>> matters. >>>>> I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you >>>>> might see it, I confess. >>>>> >>>>> Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid. >>>>> >>>>> I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must >>>>> receive lots of this sort of thing. >>>>> >>>>> I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the >>>>> linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/ >>>>> >>>>> Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the >>>>> file gb-source.conf >>>>> with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/") >>>>> >>>>> Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is >>>>> well. >>>>> >>>>> I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all >>>>> without success: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\ >>>>> >>>>> c:\Users\Greg\ >>>>> >>>>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\ >>>>> >>>>> c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\ >>>>> >>>>> If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" >>>>> asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> -- >>> Marco Antoniotti >>> https://dcb.disco.unimib.it >>> >>
-- Wilfredo Velázquez-Rodríguez
I seem to have forgotten to send this to the asdf-devel list, in case anyone is interested:
In the meantime, Robert's suggestion of looking at
(uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/")
yielded a list containing C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Roaming\config\ and C:\ProgramData\Application Data\config\
On the basis of no hard evidence, I took it that the latter is where applications rather than humans would put things. I worked my way down the former, creating directories and files as needed. I had to do some of this in a terminal since my W11 would not show hidden directories or files (despite having set them to be shown in the Views menu).
The result is that gb-source.conf as described below now lives in
C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Roaming\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\
In a brand new Allegro, with (require :asdf) I can now issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and have it run correctly.
I have not tried the other possibility, being satisfied, and relieved, that one works!
Thanks Robert for your time, patience and suggestion, and Marco for the pointer to CL-FAD which I have used in other circumstances.
Cheers Greg On 2023-06-03 11:57, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
Ahem. Shameless plug: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/mantoniotti/CLAD
Cheers
MA
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:28 PM Robert Goldman rpgoldman@sift.info wrote:
Dear Greg, Thanks for the kind words! I am not sure why I didn't see your post on ASDF-devel, but I didn't. And I have seen several requests for moderation, so the list seems live. In case my response is interesting to the group, I am responding to the list as well. A couple of disclaimers: (1) I haven't used Windows in more than a decade, and (2) I don't use these configuration files. I find I'm happier to keep all of my lisp configuration in lisp configuration files (|clinit.cl <http://clinit.cl>|, |.sbclrc|, etc. -- indeed I point all of those at one single |lisp-config.lisp| file), instead of having to hunt through multiple files in multiple locations for this information. So take anything I say with more than a grain of salt (given your cardiologist approves!). That said, these config files are placed according to the XDG standard which... as far as I can tell only applies to linux, and not to either Windows or MacOS. So there's code in ASDF/UIOP that extends XDG to other platforms. ASDF documentation about XDG can be found here <https://asdf.common-lisp.dev/asdf.html#XDG-base-directory>. I don't understand Windows enough to understand this piece of text from the ASDF manual: Since support for querying the Windows registry is not possible to do in reasonable amounts of portable Common Lisp code, ASDF 3 relies on the environment variables that Windows usually exports, and are hopefully in synch with the Windows registry. If you care about the details, see uiop/configuration.lisp and don’t hesitate to suggest improvements. The relevant code may be found in uiop/configuration.lisp <https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/blob/release/uiop/configuration.lisp>. It looks like invoking the functions |uiop:xdg-config-home| and |uiop:xdg-config-pathnames| might help you figure out where ASDF is looking. But I don't really understand the discussion about the registry above. I do see a bit of code that says that UIOP (and thus ASDF) look for configs in the value of |(uiop:xdg-data-dirs "config/")| -- maybe see what that evaluates to on your Windows box? I hope that these snippets have been helpful, and if you find the answers you seek, please send to me and ASDF-devel, so that the information will be available to others. It might be a good thing if someone with the resources would gift a Windows resource to the CL Foundation to hook into |common-lisp.net <http://common-lisp.net>| so that the community doesn't have to rely on this kind of guesswork. I note that ASDF is no longer tested on Windows at all, since I don't have access to a Windows VM and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to use it (nor do I have the time to learn). Good luck! R On 2 Jun 2023, at 19:40, Greg Bennett wrote: Good evening Robert, Some longish time ago you were kind enough to help me with ASDF matters. I posted recently to asdf-devel, largely in the hope that you might see it, I confess. Web search has, so far, not been helpful, I'm afraid. I shall quite understand if you do not reply; your inbox must receive lots of this sort of thing. I have a test system in c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/ copied from the linux directory /home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/ Under Linux in my source-registry.conf.d directory I have the file gb-source.conf with the one line (:tree "/home/gwbennett/ASDF/asdf-tests/") Then in sbcl I can issue (asdf:load-system "gb-a") and all is well. I have tried various spots for gb-source.conf under Windows, all without success: c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\config\common-lisp\source-registry.conf.d\ c:\Users\Greg\ c:\Users\Greg\AppData\ c:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\ If I issue, old style, (push "c:/ASDF/asdf-tests/" asdf:*central-registry*) then all is well. Perhaps there is no place for a config file under W! Cheers Greg
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Greg Bennett -
Marco Antoniotti -
Robert Goldman -
Robert Goldman -
Robert P. Goldman
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Wilfredo Velazquez