July 2008 - cells-devel - mailman3.common-lisp.net

[cells-devel] Re: [cells-gtk-devel] installation notes, type error in test-gtk
by Kenny Tilton 01 Aug '08

01 Aug '08

Laziz Foo wrote: >> Thanks! So I have lost track, is this Cells-Gtk3 (with Cells 3 Inside) or >> Oldskool Cells-Gtk? > > > This is cells-gtk3. Oldschool works out of the box, but I wanted the > cairo stuff. And you got help from someone other than Peter H so it sounds as if CG3 has taken hold. Cool. So it is a battle to death between Cello and Cells-Gtk3 for GUI supremacy? Awesome. > It's a case of scratching my own itch-- every > stock/futures charting app I've used (both windows and linux) are > inadequate in ways that are important to me; might as well write my > own. > > Your propaganda has convinced me that somehow I would have > greenspunned Cells, or given up on the project entirely while chasing > state issues around. Ah, good, the spam is working. Yes, the paradigm is inevitable so one ends up automating dataflow one way or another. Over on c.l.l someone is explaining how Qt's signals/slots eliminate the need for Cells. Whatever. I just like the mounting evidence that dataflow is inevitable. I would add it to the prior art in the Cells manifesto but it is getting ridiculous, I might just edit that down to "It's everywhere." > >> Cells3 integrity clearly is to be preferred, but I miss the good old days of >> Cells Classic when I just SETfed here and SETFed there and let the data >> converge /eventually/ on correct values. :) > > In one of my previous go-rounds w/ lisp, I used cells-classic to > investigate globex tick data. C.l.l. cells reactions/concerns do not > match the reality of downloading it and doing something useful > quickly, despite the lack of documentation. Damn. I'll have to find some other way to keep Cells to myself. perhaps it is time to start seeding CVS with insidious bugs... > It also occurs to me that > if the 'yobbos' really wanted to popularize lisp, they'd find some way > to use cells-*tk to create a Visual Studio-like thingy that would > enable any CTO's nephew to say, "Oh lisp-- yeah, I do that." It would not help, I think. Programming is receding into the background (or India or Russia or China) of culture. Once was a time lotsa people wired up electronics. The career is still there for the odd weirdo, but -- well, it's like shade-tree auto mechanics: gone along with the simple technology. Happy hacking. kt

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[cells-devel] Re: [cells-gtk-devel] installation notes, type error in test-gtk
by Kenny Tilton 25 Jul '08

25 Jul '08

Laziz Foo wrote: >> While you are waiting for a genuine GTk person to respond, all I can say is >> that it looks as if the code in CFFI that automatically tries to do the >> right thing with Lisp data to get it into a form the C function will >> tolerate is failing to do the right thing. Since this code is pretty >> common/well tested, all I can think is that perhaps a recompile in and >> around the specific function gtk-window-set-title (gwst) might do the trick. >> Or just bail on your Lisp, restart, then do a full rebuild from scratch >> (ASDF :force t) IIRC. Possibly during your brave struggles (congrats on >> making it this far, btw) you got one thing compiled before something else >> and the order should have been the opposite. pardon the hand-waving. >> >> I presume you are running demo code untouched, or I would worry that "GTK >> Testing" should be wrapped in with-c-string or something. >> >> Congrats again and thanks for the notes. >> >> kt > > > With the patch supplied by Ingo, and the widgets.lisp change mentioned > in his June email, I'm good to go. Thanks for the kind words, and > your entertaining blog entries @ smuglispweenie. Thanks! So I have lost track, is this Cells-Gtk3 (with Cells 3 Inside) or Oldskool Cells-Gtk? Cells3 integrity clearly is to be preferred, but I miss the good old days of Cells Classic when I just SETfed here and SETFed there and let the data converge /eventually/ on correct values. :) kt

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[cells-devel] Cells bug!
by Kenny Tilton 15 Jul '08

15 Jul '08

Well, I think this is right, not sure if it was like that for a reason, but this does cause rules to run for no reason after a certain precide series of events I won't bore you with. Look for one new line below: (defmethod md-slot-value-assume (c raw-value propagation-code) (assert c) #+shhh (trc c "md-slot-value-assume entry" (c-state c)) (without-c-dependency (let ((prior-state (c-value-state c)) (prior-value (c-value c)) (absorbed-value (c-absorb-value c raw-value))) (c-pulse-update c :slotv-assume) ; --- head off unchanged; this got moved earlier on 2006-06-10 --- (when (and (not (eq propagation-code :propagate)) (find prior-state '(:valid :uncurrent)) (c-no-news c absorbed-value prior-value)) (trc nil "(setf md-slot-value) > early no news" propagation-code prior-state prior-value absorbed-value) (count-it :nonews) ===new==> (setf (c-value-state c) :valid) ; in case it was :uncurrent (return-from md-slot-value-assume absorbed-value)) ...etc unchanged... Not committing to CVS cuz I don't want to break things, kinda too bust with Algebra to handle any fallout. kt

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[cells-devel] gui-geometry
by Andy Chambers 13 Jul '08

13 Jul '08

Hi Kenny, Is the gui-geometry in cells what powers layout in cello? Would it be worth somehow getting celtk to use this or should I just bite the bullet and jump to cello? If the former, when you have time, would you mind writing up a short guided tour of gui-geometry? Even if it was just to explain what all the abbreviations like :lx, :ly etc meant. Did you base it on some other framework and I could look up the docs for that? I was trying to port some of the demos in the tcl examples directory but I don't think the current celtk layout system is flexible enough to implement them exactly. Cheers, Andy ps Openair is still coming along. I got the xref stuff working on the lisp side but think I stumbled across a bug in jquery so nested widgets aren't being expanded properly. I'll come back to it again soon but I've got the GUI itch at the moment since I'm doing lots of xml stuff at work. -- ---- Andy Chambers Formedix Ltd

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[cells-devel] Controlling order of initialization?
by Mikko Ahonen 11 Jul '08

11 Jul '08

Hmm, here follows a question about controlling the order of initialization. For example, let's assume we want to create a radio button group with individual radio buttons as kids. The invidual radio buttons are generated automatically based on the arguments passed to make-instance of the radio button groups. Thus, the kids are generated in the initialize-instance of the radio button group. They must get created before call to apply-next-method. The problem is that when I generate the child here, it wants to read stuff from the parent, which is not yet completely initialized. For example, it wants to read which kid is selected (parent's selected cell) before any kids even exist! I guess this is more generic problem of controlling the order of initialization of children, and perhaps delaying it until after the initialization of the parent. How do people usually go about doing this? I can think of some work-arounds. For example set parent's selected cell to nil, and then ignore this value in kids. Or define some new state cell in the parent, which children watch for. But isn't this a quite generic need in cells programs? Best regards, Mikko Ahonen

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[cells-devel] Inheritance from model, not model-object?
by Mikko Ahonen 10 Jul '08

10 Jul '08

Hello, Am I misunderstanding something, or should "model-object" in this error be replaced with "model"? "If no superclass of X inherits directly or indirectly from model-object, model-object must be included as a direct super-class in the defmodel form for X" Btw, cells seems very intuitive way to do GUI programming. I am new to both Lisp and GUI programming. The first thing I thought after getting mingled in some complicated callback hierarchies was that there must be a better way in Lisp to do this. And luckily I found cells. Thanks. Best regards, Mikko Ahonen

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09 Jul '08

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[cells-devel] It was a good name in theory....Name That Software! Contest
by Kenny 05 Jul '08

05 Jul '08

I was gonna call it Theory Y Algebra just to confuse people but nobody noticed the second Y and thought it was Theory Algebra, missing the whole point. Then i was going to call it Practical Algebra since it is all about practice, but too many things are called Practical Algebra. So I went back to my original idea, good old solid simple but anglo-elegant Tiltons Algebra and that is what it will be unless i go with a goofy name, like a candidate that got a strong positive reaction from one focus group member: Stuck on Algebra! Bit of a pun there since it can mean you are having trouble with it or that you love it. Not much of a contest since I am not asking for other names, but what do you think? __ Tiltons Algebra __ Stuck On Algebra! Voting ends in a week! Thx, kenny

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[cells-devel] Re: cells and allegrocache.
by Kenny Tilton 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

I am responding by posting to cells-devel: > I hope you don't mind I ask how or what is the best way to persist cells in general. There is nothing genersl, because the process involves understanding Cells and ones persistent library and then writing several hundred lines of cleverness to make them work together with very specific leverage of the mechanisms offered by the persistence library. I believe for most people who use cells would also want them to persist them somehow. I loved it when I did it. Did you see my triple-cells hack? You build the FFI to get to Redland RDF and use that for persistence. I like RDF better anyway as a data model, perisstent or not. And Allegrocache seems to be complicated to be used with cells in this case. Yes, it would be pretty tricky for anyone not versed in Cells, and even then a solid amount of work. There is no magic hint to give you, it is just a question of glue: how does one make two mechanisms work together? cheers, ken

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