August 2008 - cells-devel - mailman3.common-lisp.net

[cells-devel] laziness -- what does "once-asked" mean?
by Larry Clapp 29 Aug '08

29 Aug '08

I understand (I think ...) what :once-asked *does*, I want to know what it *means*. In other words, the other two options seem to answer the question "when is this cell lazy?" Well, an :always cell is always lazy -- it's not recalculated until and unless you ask for it. An :until-asked cell is lazy until you query it once, then it's non-lazy from then on. "once-asked" seems to answer a *different* question, "when is this cell evaluated?" It's evaluated once, when created, and then only when queried. Is there any single "question" that all three answer, or are they just inconsistent? Thanks! -- L

2 3

[cells-devel] What's a cells-store?
by Stefano Dissegna 27 Aug '08

27 Aug '08

Reading cells source files, I noticed cells-store. I think it has something to do with hash tables, but nothing beside this. What's its purpose? How is a cells-store normally used? Thanks in advance for an answer.

2 2

Fwd: [cells-devel] Need help getting Mac version of my Algebra software
by Frank Goenninger 18 Aug '08

18 Aug '08

Reposting to the list ... Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail: > Von: Frank Goenninger <frgo(a)me.com> > Datum: 18. August 2008 08:52:56 MESZ > An: Kenny Tilton <kennytilton(a)optonline.net> > Kopie: cells-devel <cells-devel(a)common-lisp.net> > Betreff: Re: [cells-devel] Need help getting Mac version of my > Algebra software > > Kenny, all: > > Am 16.08.2008 um 01:35 schrieb Kenny Tilton: > >> Windows searches first the app directory, then the PATH values, >> then /windows/system32. The cool thing is I can just lob all my >> DLLs into the app folder and not worry about (a) conflicts or (b) >> learning how to use an installer (not that that would be the end of >> the world). >> >> Does the Mac have a similar search sequence? I heard on the wiki it >> was customary for Mac apps to just "install" by copying a directory. >> >> GM is a mystery, and their list was silent. One theory was about >> COM registration, even tho I am using FFI. Anyway, perhaps on the >> Mac if we /can/ just toss dylibs in the app directory it will work >> on the Mac where it did not on Windows. >> >> Thx again, kt > > On the Mac, things are a bit different. I'd first restate the > requirements from the above paragraph: > > 1. Install all libs in the app's folder in order to have full > control over the libs being loaded. > 2. Get the app to find the libs in that folder. > > Mac OS X's idea of an application is really a folder named App.app > (notice the suffix "app"). In that ".app" folder we have: > > /Contents/ ("/" denoting a directory) > > and within the Contents folder the following structure: > > /Info.plist > /MacOS/ > /Library > /MacOS > /Resources > > While not going into too much detail here (see below how to make a > suitable ".app" folder structure) I would advice to package up GM > into the /Library folder. This folder holds "foreign" libs. Same for > Tcl/Tk. > > So, how to build that ".app" folder: > > On Mac OS X there's a "Developer" folder right at the root directory > of the internal disk if you have selected to install the developer > tools (like Xcode etc.). > > In folder /Developer/Applications/Utilities there's a tool called > "PackageMaker". After having build your source folder tree like > > .../StuckOnAlgebra/ > > as the root dir and then below that > > /Library/TclTk8.5 > /Library/GraphicsMagic > /bin/stuckonalgebra (the "exe") > /... whatever files else needed for the app > > you may use the PackageMaker to build the package via drag-and-drop > and customizing the install process. > > In PackageMaker you want to select the options such that the install > process is installing SoA in /Applications. This ensures that you > can rely on the Library path to be "/Applications/StuckOnAlgebra.app/ > Library/". > > Then, in Cello and in Celtk, you have to adapt the load paths > accordingly. > > That should do it. You may want to automate that process when > building stuff over and over again. It then may be required to use > Xcode or a shell script to make this automated. 2 days work to get > everything stable... > > Complex? No ;-) Just Different. > > I could make a first package if you want me to... > > Cheers, > Frank > > > >

1 0

Re: [cells-devel] Cells tutorial
by Stefano Dissegna 18 Aug '08

18 Aug '08

2008/8/17 Kenny Tilton <kennytilton(a)optonline.net> > Stefano Dissegna wrote: > > >> >> 2008/8/17 Kenny Tilton <kennytilton(a)optonline.net <mailto: >> kennytilton(a)optonline.net>> >> >> >> >> Glad to, but can you convert them to something I can read on a >> windows box? >> >> kt >> >> >> >> I've added the pdf version (fonts are quite ugly, though) and a txt >> version (both unix and windows end-of-line). >> > > Looks pretty solid. I do have some suggestions, will send later. Have you > read cells-manifesto.txt, btw? > > kt > Thanks for the suggestions, later I'll read them and fix the tutorial. I will also keep extending it as I get to know more about cells. I've had just a quick look at the cells manifesto, I'll read it more thoroughly today.

1 0

Re: [cells-devel] Cells tutorial
by Stefano Dissegna 17 Aug '08

17 Aug '08

2008/8/17 Kenny Tilton <kennytilton(a)optonline.net> > > Glad to, but can you convert them to something I can read on a windows box? > > kt > I've added the pdf version (fonts are quite ugly, though) and a txt version (both unix and windows end-of-line).

1 0

[cells-devel] Cells tutorial
by Stefano Dissegna 17 Aug '08

17 Aug '08

Hi! I'm a cells newbie, and while learning it I'm writing a tutorial. It's certainly full of errors, so I would highly appreciate if you could have a look at it and tell what do you think. You can find it here: http://github.com/stefano/cells-doc/tree/master At the moment there are two files: the Lyx source and a dvi file generated by Lyx/LaTex.

1 0

[cells-devel] Need help getting Mac version of my Algebra software
by Kenny Tilton 15 Aug '08

15 Aug '08

Bill Clementson has kindly volunteered to take a look at making a build of my Algebra program for Mac OS X. I have already dragged the code over and it Just Compiles (doesn't hurt that we are using ACL on both OSes). Yeah. So with luck we just need shared libs and fine-tuning of any CFFI calls referencing same. Right now I am stuck, btw, can't find a way around actually running the GraphicsMagick installer -- I'd rather just do what I do in the Windows version: just throw all the libs into the application directory. Not sure if the Mac works that way. I am tempted to just beg borrow steal the libs in binary form -- bad idea? I imagine Tcl/Tk/Togl can be installed from ActiveState and then move their libs into the app directory (if that bit is even the same)... well, any ideas/thoughts/advice on this issue are welcome. cheers, kenny ps. Heard from my first interested customer, a school in Missouri. They need a Mac version. I knew I was going to do one, but I am reminded again at how much more interesting Mac users are. (Saw this last time I sold the app.) k

2 2

[cells-devel] the cells way
by Andy Chambers 13 Aug '08

13 Aug '08

Hey, In openair, I'm getting problems with dead instances. I think its maybe because I'm working against cells. What I need to do is keep track somewhere of all the nodes that change in response to a request. Currently, this is done using an "update" slot which we setf on an xhtml observer. (defobserver xhtml ((self html)) (when (and new-value (do-send self new-value old-value)) (trc "new xhtml" new-value) (setf (update self) (format nil "$(\"#~a\").replaceWith(\"~a\")" (md-name self) (js-escape new-value))))) When a new request comes in, we do the following: - walk the family tree, setting the update slot to nil. - feed the request parameters into the model - walk the family tree looking for places where update is not nil and sending it to the browser In some cases, that works fine but in others, we find dead cells while walking the tree the first time. Another point to note is that the update slot is specified as :cell nil. Based on its purpose and usage, does that make sense? Should I be wrapping this traversal in with-integrity or something? Cheers, Andy

2 1

[cells-devel] Current DP not GE pulse ...
by Mikko Ahonen 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

Hello, Small issue I seem to constantly run into while debugging Cells source code: First, I sometimes get "New as of Cells3: parent must be supplied to make-instance of .." for various reasons. For example now I used c? for cell that did not refer to any other cell. Anyway, this is expected. But even if I run (cells-reset) and then try running it again, I get this kind of error messages below. It is slightly annoying to have to start the environment when this happens. Current DP 1 not GE pulse 85 of cell (Foo . <vld>)<85:A VISIBLE-NAME/#<ROLE 22356BC7> = Foo> Is there some simple workaround? Best regards, Mikko Ahonen

2 1

[cells-devel] Greenspunning Cells in C++
by Mayson Lancaster 08 Aug '08

08 Aug '08

Just listened to a google techtalk by Sean Parent from Adobe which I (perhaps incorrectly) would characterise by the above subject. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" http://www.youtube.com/v/4moyKUHApq4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src=" http://www.youtube.com/v/4moyKUHApq4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Code at: http://stlab.adobe.com/ Papers/book in progress: http://www.stepanovpapers.com/ fwiw Mayson

2 3

[cells-devel] Real-World Cells...
by Kenny Tilton 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

Ever wonder what real-world Cells looks like? http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/ ...only for Windows at this point, but based on Cello which runs everywhere so just a matter or priorities. As the page says, intro guide inside zip. Learned quite a few Deep Lessons when I got lazy and went "procedural" with a lot of SETFing in observers. Maybe not lazy, we never want to be slave to a paradigm. Anyway, I sure climbed that learning curve and it is a funny one when one tries to do a few SETFs (to other Cells) in an observer. Doable in the end and predictable and understandable once one knows The Way(tm), but till then... ugh. I might also see Cells/4 from where I am standing. It would start by making the Procedural Cells (Procells?) easier, and unrelatedly solve a referential integrity problem I keep running into, where the instance owning a Cell I am using gets not-to-be'ed but I did not learn about the instance (in that rule) by reading a kids slot so I have no clue that I am depending on a dead cell. Until I run again. :) Anyway, right now I am just trying to stave off bankruptcy so I can keep doing open source (and eat) so I would be very appreciative to anyone who could check out the software at this early alpha stage so i can get to beta and start pestering non-techie math people knowing the download they encounter more or less works. Just downloading and running and seeing if it works would help, btw. Thx! kenny

1 0

[cells-devel] Re: [cells-gtk-devel] installation notes, type error in test-gtk
by Kenny Tilton 01 Aug '08

01 Aug '08

Laziz Foo wrote: >> Thanks! So I have lost track, is this Cells-Gtk3 (with Cells 3 Inside) or >> Oldskool Cells-Gtk? > > > This is cells-gtk3. Oldschool works out of the box, but I wanted the > cairo stuff. And you got help from someone other than Peter H so it sounds as if CG3 has taken hold. Cool. So it is a battle to death between Cello and Cells-Gtk3 for GUI supremacy? Awesome. > It's a case of scratching my own itch-- every > stock/futures charting app I've used (both windows and linux) are > inadequate in ways that are important to me; might as well write my > own. > > Your propaganda has convinced me that somehow I would have > greenspunned Cells, or given up on the project entirely while chasing > state issues around. Ah, good, the spam is working. Yes, the paradigm is inevitable so one ends up automating dataflow one way or another. Over on c.l.l someone is explaining how Qt's signals/slots eliminate the need for Cells. Whatever. I just like the mounting evidence that dataflow is inevitable. I would add it to the prior art in the Cells manifesto but it is getting ridiculous, I might just edit that down to "It's everywhere." > >> Cells3 integrity clearly is to be preferred, but I miss the good old days of >> Cells Classic when I just SETfed here and SETFed there and let the data >> converge /eventually/ on correct values. :) > > In one of my previous go-rounds w/ lisp, I used cells-classic to > investigate globex tick data. C.l.l. cells reactions/concerns do not > match the reality of downloading it and doing something useful > quickly, despite the lack of documentation. Damn. I'll have to find some other way to keep Cells to myself. perhaps it is time to start seeding CVS with insidious bugs... > It also occurs to me that > if the 'yobbos' really wanted to popularize lisp, they'd find some way > to use cells-*tk to create a Visual Studio-like thingy that would > enable any CTO's nephew to say, "Oh lisp-- yeah, I do that." It would not help, I think. Programming is receding into the background (or India or Russia or China) of culture. Once was a time lotsa people wired up electronics. The career is still there for the odd weirdo, but -- well, it's like shade-tree auto mechanics: gone along with the simple technology. Happy hacking. kt

2 1