Hi Kenny, Is the gui-geometry in cells what powers layout in cello? Would it be worth somehow getting celtk to use this or should I just bite the bullet and jump to cello? If the former, when you have time, would you mind writing up a short guided tour of gui-geometry? Even if it was just to explain what all the abbreviations like :lx, :ly etc meant. Did you base it on some other framework and I could look up the docs for that? I was trying to port some of the demos in the tcl examples directory but I don't think the current celtk layout system is flexible enough to implement them exactly. Cheers, Andy ps Openair is still coming along. I got the xref stuff working on the lisp side but think I stumbled across a bug in jquery so nested widgets aren't being expanded properly. I'll come back to it again soon but I've got the GUI itch at the moment since I'm doing lots of xml stuff at work. -- ---- Andy Chambers Formedix Ltd