Hi all: I found some strange effect ... I can't seem to get :relief 'sunken make my label really sunken... (mk-label :text (c? (let ((fw-filename (fm^v :choose-fw-file- btn))) (or fw-filename ""))) :parent-x 210 :parent-y 340 :width 30 :borderwidth 1 :relief 'sunken :tile? nil) When browsing through the code in Celtk I found very few places with Tile dependency only. The most complex being: (defgeneric tk-class-options (self) (:method-combination append) (:method :around (self) (or (get (type-of self) 'tk-class-options) (setf (get (type-of self) 'tk-class-options) (loop with all = (remove-duplicates (call-next- method) :key 'second) for old in (when (tile? self) (case (type-of self) (label '(pady padx height indicatoron relief tk-label)) (otherwise '(pady padx #+hmmm height indicatoron relief tk-label))));; do (setf old (delete old all :key 'car)) finally (return all)))))) .. which does what exactly? I see there's a (when (tile? self) in there ... but what if no Tile is loaded? Sorry, random poking here, clearly, but I can't find what I do different than 10 months ago when last working with Celtk ... Thanks for any insight! Frank