RE: [cl-wiki-devel] Thoughts about page storage
-----Original Message----- From: cl-wiki-devel-bounces@common-lisp.net on behalf of Vehbi Sinan Tunalioglu Sent: Thu 9/8/2005 11:43 PM To: clelland@gmail.com Cc: cl-wiki-devel@common-lisp.net Subject: Re: [cl-wiki-devel] Thoughts about page storage Ian Clelland wrote:
On 9/8/05, Vehbi Sinan Tunalioglu <vehbisinan@gmail.com> wrote:
:) Ok.
"Catalog index pages"? It sounds like a manual way. Am I right?
I can imagine a scheme where, when you put a page into a category, an index page somewhere gets automatically updated by the wiki... I don't know if it's a good scheme, but I think you could do that sort of thing without a lot of manual intervention.
Nice. But how to do that recursively or how to find the category of a given page? Actually, this is a question of whether we want to implement the idea of categories, and if yes, how comprehensive it should be. Stefan, the maintainer, should maybe decide it. But, I think that I'll need a category mechanism that can grow in depth as well, like subcategories.
Some questions: - Do we really need categorization feature? (Of course, it depends on who uses cl-wiki for which purposes) - Do we really need automatic update of some index, index page, etc.? I mean if I create a category I can update a page. If I forget then some time I'll remember, this doesn't pose a disaster. - Do we really need categories? Refer to Wikipedia. Does it have any? I mean, what if I create a page called "Categories" then make some alphabetic links (or categories) and place the links under them accordingly? Wikipedia doesn't do that automagically (you'll have to do a lot of editing), why should cl-wiki do? My 2 cents (like it or not :) Regards, Emre Sevinc Istanbul Bilgi University eMBA Development Team
On 9/8/05, Emre Sevinc <emres@bilgi.edu.tr> wrote:
- Do we really need categories? Refer to Wikipedia. Does it have any? I mean, what if I create a page called "Categories" then make some alphabetic links (or categories) and place the links under them accordingly? Wikipedia doesn't do that automagically (you'll have to do a lot of editing), why should cl-wiki do?
Well, Mediawiki (Wikipedia) definitely has categories, although I have no idea how they're managed , or whether they're a lot of work to maintain. They look like they're generated automatically. ZWiki, for Zope, doesn't do categories, but instead maintains a document "tree", in which nodes have "parents", and that parent-child relationship can be changed by an editor. It uses this to create hierarchical lists of nodes, while still keeping the nodes all in a flat namespace. I'm fairly certain that Ward's Wiki (c2.com) only does categories manually; you have to create a category page, and link your other pages to it by hand. It doesn't seem to suffer for that despite its huge size. Honestly, I don't think that cl-wiki needs categories in order to be a "real wiki"; if there is a simple and elegant way of incorporating that sort of metadata, I'd be all for it, but I suspect that it would just take away from the simplicity of the thing right now. -- Regards, Ian Clelland <clelland@gmail.com>
Ian Clelland wrote:
On 9/8/05, Emre Sevinc <emres@bilgi.edu.tr> wrote:
- Do we really need categories? Refer to Wikipedia. Does it have any? I mean, what if I create a page called "Categories" then make some alphabetic links (or categories) and place the links under them accordingly? Wikipedia doesn't do that automagically (you'll have to do a lot of editing), why should cl-wiki do?
[...] ZWiki, for Zope, doesn't do categories, but instead maintains a document "tree", in which nodes have "parents", and that parent-child relationship can be changed by an editor. It uses this to create hierarchical lists of nodes, while still keeping the nodes all in a flat namespace.
Namespace this, namespace that. I simply don't think we need that functionality.
I'm fairly certain that Ward's Wiki (c2.com) only does categories manually; you have to create a category page, and link your other pages to it by hand. It doesn't seem to suffer for that despite its huge size.
And thinking about how much Bilgi University's Lisp User's Group's wiki can grow, I don't think that'll be a torture, too. (yes, I'm just thinking about our usage, shame on me :)
Honestly, I don't think that cl-wiki needs categories in order to be a "real wiki"; if there is a simple and elegant way of incorporating that sort of metadata, I'd be all for it, but I suspect that it would just take away from the simplicity of the thing right now.
I agree with you %100. Give me a simple and flexible content management system and let me mold it into any structure I want. Isn't Lisp all about flexibility (yes, not so simple but that's another story) :) Emre S.
participants (3)
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Emre Sevinc -
Emre Sevinç
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Ian Clelland