Hi,

First of all, Erik, thank you for mustering the energy to take care of this migration and inventorying of the lists. Does anyone volunteer to be part of a Mailing Lists Working Committee which can make a point of periodically inventorying and auditing these lists for spam, active moderators, etc? You would get all the technical support you need.

I note that some of these are still very much active projects but they've scattered elsewhere over the years, for example cl-pdf hosts their code at github and appears to communicate pretty much exclusively through github Issues. Even some active projects hosted at our own gitlab may be communicating through gitlab Issues or other means and thus not register any mailing list traffic through our mailman.

Anyway, if none of a particular project's mailing lists have been active in several years, then it's difficult to make any case for keeping said list active, in the face of the overhead costs Erik mentions, especially if they can be re-activated easily when needed. However, in the Common Lisp space-time continuum, five years is not all that long. I'd be curious what the numbers look like if you go back eight or even 10 years?

Erik, did you say that you sent verification emails to the list owners of these lists? Is the list owner by definition the only moderator, or can they assign other moderators? As I understand it, we can detect non-responsive moderators by seeing mails bounce to an admin account, is that right? If so, how can volunteers sign up to be privvy to those bounced mails and perhaps help to mitigate? Is that just another list to sign up for through the mailman3 web page?

One other question for Erik - are these active lists and archives publicly crawl-able? Because that brings up the whole question of what is CLF's position on serving up for free such content, which is under the stewardship of clnet infrastructure, to all comers, including the slew of neural net training hoovers which now apparently a permanent feature of life online. But that's a discussion for a different thread.

Thanks again!

 Dave



On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 7:24 AM Erik Huelsmann <ehuels@gmail.com> wrote:
All,


As part of the migration from Mailman2 to Mailman3, I have checked which lists are actively used. The outcome allows for some rigorous cleanup.

Out of 236 mailing lists, 180 have not had a mail added to their archives over the last 5 years(!). My proposal is to decommission these mailing lists, meaning that only the archives will be migrated to Mailman3. These mailing lists can always be re-instated at a later time.

Rationale for this clean-up is that some owners of the mailing lists have fallen out of contact, causing additional work to fall on the shoulders of the site maintainers: mailing lists require moderation of non-member posts, where those moderation requests which can't be delivered to the list owner, are sent to the site admins. Additionally, unused mailing lists may accrue spam mail in their archives, lowering the value of the archive. (Temporarily) Closing mailing lists can prevent this.


What do you think?


It concerns these lists:

alexandria-cvs
anaphora-cvs
anaphora-devel
ansi-test-cvs
ansi-test-devel
armedbear-announce
armedbear-cvs
asdf-install-devel
asdf-packaging-announce
aspiwork-pdm-cvs
aspiwork-pdm-devel
bese-devel
bordeaux-threads-announce
bordeaux-threads-ticket
boston-lisp-announce
boston-lisp-organizers
cello-devel
cells-gtk-devel
cffi-objects-cvs
cl-berkeley-db-devel
cl-bzip2-devel
cl-containers-devel
cl-dbf-cvs
cl-dwim-devel
cl-ec2-devel
cl-emb-devel
cl-facebook-devel
cl-fuse-devel
cl-glpk-devel
cl-graph-devel
cl-gsl-devel
cl-gtk2-devel
cl-heap-announce
cl-jpeg-devel
cl-json-announce
cl-kanren-trs-cvs
cl-kanren-trs-devel
cl-l10n-devel
cl-monad-macros-cvs
cl-mpi-devel
cl-muproc-devel
cl-ncurses-devel
cl-neo4j-cvs
cl-neo4j-devel
cl-openid-devel
cl-openid-ticket
cl-org-mode-devel
cl-pdf-announce
cl-pdf-devel
cl-perec-devel
cl-plus-j-announce
cl-plus-j-devel
cl-plus-ssl-cvs
cl-plus-ssl-devel
cl-pop-devel
cl-proc-devel
cl-sbml-cvs
cl-selenium-devel
cl-smtp-devel
cl-soap-devel
cl-sqlite-announce
cl-sqlite-devel
cl-store-devel
cl-table-cvs
cl-twitter-devel
cl-typesetting-announce
cl-typesetting-devel
cl-unification-devel
cl-utilities-devel
cl-walker-devel
cl-xmlspam-devel
cl-xmpp-devel
cl-yacc-ebnf-devel
clbuild-devel
cldoc-devel
cleric-announce
cleric-devel
clfswm-announce
clfswm-cvs
clfswm-devel
climacs-devel
climplayer-devel
clonsigna-announce
clonsigna-devel
closer-announce
closer-devel
clouchdb-cvs
clouchdb-devel
clsql-fluid-devel
clx-devel
cmucl-ticket
common-lisp-beginner-cvs
de-setf-amqp-cvs
definer-announce
docudown-devel
eager-future-devel
ecl-readline-devel
eclipse-devel
editor-hints-devel
elephant-devel
elephant-ticket
f2cl-ticket
fetter-devel
fiveam-announce
fset-devel
gecol-devel
ginseng-cvs
gsharp-devel
gtk-cffi-cvs
gtk-cffi-devel
heresy-devel
implementation-hackers
iolib-announce
iolib-devel
ip-interfaces-devel
isidorus-devel
kpax-devel
l-math-announce
l-math-devel
langutils-devel
lgtk-devel
lift-devel
linedit-cvs
linedit-devel
lisp-interface-library-devel
lisp-machine
lispbox-cvs
lispbox-devel
lisplab-cvs
lisplab-devel
lisppaste-devel
lisppaste-requests
lispy-devel
lmud-devel
local-time-devel
mel-base-devel
metabang-bind-devel
metacopy-devel
metatilities-base-devel
mit-cadr-cvs
mod-lisp-devel
movitz-devel
names-and-paths-devel
nixies-devel
noctool-cvs
oct-cvs
oct-ticket
pal-devel
parenscript-announce
pg-devel
plexippus-xpath-devel
protobuf-devel
python-on-lisp-devel
rfc2388-cvs
rucksack-cvs
rucksack-devel
s-xml-devel
sicl-announce
sicl-devel
slime-cvs
snow-announce
snow-cvs
snow-devel
spray-devel
teepeedee2-devel
the-feebs-war-devel
tinaa-devel
travisci
trivial-backtrace-devel
trivial-gray-streams-devel
trivial-utf-8-devel
uri-template-devel
usocket-announce
usocket-ticket
vivace-graph-devel
web4r-devel
web4r-devel-ja
xcvb-devel
xuriella-devel
zip-devel


--
Bye,

Erik.

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--
My Best,

Dave Cooper, david.cooper@genworks.com
genworks.com, gendl.org
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