[mac-lisp-ide] Whither CLIM/Cocoa?
Greetings fellow lispites, How is the McCLIM/Cocoa effort going? I haven't seen any news for a while and I'm dying to play with it (even if it doesn't work). Is there a CVS repository? Brian -- Brian Mastenbrook bmastenb@cs.indiana.edu http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
It's... progressing 8-) Still some glitches in text display even (for some reason "class::object" is being rendered as "clas : object" on entry, though it does get updated correctly most of the time afterwards (it *only* affects repeat characters, the first being rendered and all others not (initially) - I'm hoping McCLIM is being too clever for my own good and this will be sorted once copy-area is implemented). Drawing lines + rectangles works, so you can do "show class superclasses" etc and get a sensible graph. Unfortunately scrolling isn't (dependent on copy-area again) so you can't see much of the graph if it's large. Mouse events work, so you can roll over the presentations and manipulate them. There's no pixmap support, and only key events involving printing characters are working at the moment. Event handling does a lot of busy waiting, and menus don't work. Other than that it's nearly usable ;-) -Duncan On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 05:26 PM, Brian Mastenbrook wrote:
Greetings fellow lispites,
How is the McCLIM/Cocoa effort going? I haven't seen any news for a while and I'm dying to play with it (even if it doesn't work). Is there a CVS repository?
Brian -- Brian Mastenbrook bmastenb@cs.indiana.edu http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
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On Feb 29, 2004, at 12:58 PM, Duncan Rose wrote:
It's... progressing 8-) Still some glitches in text display even (for some reason "class::object" is being rendered as "clas : object" on entry, though it does get updated correctly most of the time afterwards (it *only* affects repeat characters, the first being rendered and all others not (initially) - I'm hoping McCLIM is being too clever for my own good and this will be sorted once copy-area is implemented).
Drawing lines + rectangles works, so you can do "show class superclasses" etc and get a sensible graph. Unfortunately scrolling isn't (dependent on copy-area again) so you can't see much of the graph if it's large. Mouse events work, so you can roll over the presentations and manipulate them.
There's no pixmap support, and only key events involving printing characters are working at the moment. Event handling does a lot of busy waiting, and menus don't work.
Other than that it's nearly usable ;-)
-Duncan
That sounds great! Is there a CVS repository available (even a non-private one)? -- Brian Mastenbrook bmastenb@cs.indiana.edu http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
There is a private CVS repo at the moment. I guess there are a couple of options for making it available: 1. Find a CVS server that provides anon access for downloads 2. Post a (source) snapshot somewhere 3. Post a binary snapshot somewhere (according to Finder on my Mac, that would be 24MB give or take a few k) It's not really in a state where it makes sense to move into the main McCLIM repo (or maybe it does) and the build process is non-standard (from a McCLIM point of view) due to dealing with bundles and all that stuff so we'll have to write some docs (bah, I wanted to write a Concordia clone before doing that ;-). Maybe Mikel has some ideas in this area (he has significantly more experience of distribution than I) so hopefully he'll pitch in to the discussion. -Duncan On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 06:15 PM, Brian Mastenbrook wrote:
On Feb 29, 2004, at 12:58 PM, Duncan Rose wrote:
It's... progressing 8-) Still some glitches in text display even (for some reason "class::object" is being rendered as "clas : object" on entry, though it does get updated correctly most of the time afterwards (it *only* affects repeat characters, the first being rendered and all others not (initially) - I'm hoping McCLIM is being too clever for my own good and this will be sorted once copy-area is implemented).
Drawing lines + rectangles works, so you can do "show class superclasses" etc and get a sensible graph. Unfortunately scrolling isn't (dependent on copy-area again) so you can't see much of the graph if it's large. Mouse events work, so you can roll over the presentations and manipulate them.
There's no pixmap support, and only key events involving printing characters are working at the moment. Event handling does a lot of busy waiting, and menus don't work.
Other than that it's nearly usable ;-)
-Duncan
That sounds great! Is there a CVS repository available (even a non-private one)? -- Brian Mastenbrook bmastenb@cs.indiana.edu http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
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On Feb 29, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Duncan Rose wrote:
There is a private CVS repo at the moment. I guess there are a couple of options for making it available:
1. Find a CVS server that provides anon access for downloads 2. Post a (source) snapshot somewhere 3. Post a binary snapshot somewhere (according to Finder on my Mac, that would be 24MB give or take a few k)
It's not really in a state where it makes sense to move into the main McCLIM repo (or maybe it does) and the build process is non-standard (from a McCLIM point of view) due to dealing with bundles and all that stuff so we'll have to write some docs (bah, I wanted to write a Concordia clone before doing that ;-).
Maybe Mikel has some ideas in this area (he has significantly more experience of distribution than I) so hopefully he'll pitch in to the discussion.
Right now, Duncan and I are working from a McCLIM source snapshot from a couple weeks back, exported, and checked into a private repository that I'm hosting. I merged in a recent copy of Bosco and then Duncan and I merged our code into that project, turning it into the current McCLIM/Cocoa project that Duncan previously decribed. I'd say that, on the one hand, the current state of the code is more annoying than anything else, but, on the other hand, thanks largely to Duncan's yeoman efforts, the McCLIM Listener on Cocoa really is a good stretch of the way toward working properly. It's not our intention to fork the code; it lives in a separate cvs repository right now largely because no one on the McCLIM list answered my queries about checking it in there. :-) I don't mind sharing the code right now, but people should be aware that it'll take work to get it running. If you want to just check it out and go then you probably shouldn't bother right now. On the other hand, I'm willing to package a snapshot if people are keen enough to do the work to get it running, and especially if it's likely to get more people hacking on the code. Of course, we really ought to check it into the main McCLIM repo soon, especially if people other than Duncan and me are going to hack on the code. Let me know if you just can't wait to get it; if there are people in that state of anticipation then I'll package it up. --me
On Mar 1, 2004, at 12:40 AM, mikel evins wrote:
It's not our intention to fork the code; it lives in a separate cvs repository right now largely because no one on the McCLIM list answered my queries about checking it in there. :-) I'll get you guys write permission in the McCLIM tree. Do you have a lot of changes / hacks to the McCLIM front end? I would be a bit hesitant to check those without some thought.
Tim
Just adding ":cocoa" to the port search path. But then, that's not a good name for the back end on several levels; the current back end is dependent on OpenMCL FFI bindings and it seems likely others may want to write a cocoa back end (say for SBCL) so we should probably refer to it differently (openmcl-cocoa? ccl?). But that's the only change in the front end. -Duncan On Monday, March 1, 2004, at 09:22 AM, Timothy Moore wrote:
On Mar 1, 2004, at 12:40 AM, mikel evins wrote:
It's not our intention to fork the code; it lives in a separate cvs repository right now largely because no one on the McCLIM list answered my queries about checking it in there. :-) I'll get you guys write permission in the McCLIM tree. Do you have a lot of changes / hacks to the McCLIM front end? I would be a bit hesitant to check those without some thought.
Tim
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On Mar 1, 2004, at 1:26 AM, Duncan Rose wrote:
Just adding ":cocoa" to the port search path. But then, that's not a good name for the back end on several levels; the current back end is dependent on OpenMCL FFI bindings and it seems likely others may want to write a cocoa back end (say for SBCL) so we should probably refer to it differently (openmcl-cocoa? ccl?).
But that's the only change in the front end.
The only significant change, that is. The project also adds a new system-definition file, in order to provide for the idiosyncratic cocoa build process without hacking up the normal system.lisp. --me
At 17:58 Uhr +0000 29.02.2004, Duncan Rose wrote:
It's... progressing 8-) Still some glitches in text display even (for some reason "class::object" is being rendered as "clas : object" on entry, though it does get updated correctly most of the time afterwards (it *only* affects repeat characters, the first being rendered and all others not (initially) - I'm hoping McCLIM is being too clever for my own good and this will be sorted once copy-area is implemented).
Drawing lines + rectangles works, so you can do "show class superclasses" etc and get a sensible graph. Unfortunately scrolling isn't (dependent on copy-area again) so you can't see much of the graph if it's large. Mouse events work, so you can roll over the presentations and manipulate them.
There's no pixmap support, and only key events involving printing characters are working at the moment. Event handling does a lot of busy waiting, and menus don't work.
Other than that it's nearly usable ;-)
-Duncan
Cool. Would it be possible to use two backends (Cocoa and X11) in one Lisp ?
On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 05:26 PM, Brian Mastenbrook wrote:
Greetings fellow lispites,
How is the McCLIM/Cocoa effort going? I haven't seen any news for a while and I'm dying to play with it (even if it doesn't work). Is there a CVS repository?
Brian -- Brian Mastenbrook bmastenb@cs.indiana.edu http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 06:34 PM, Rainer Joswig wrote:
At 17:58 Uhr +0000 29.02.2004, Duncan Rose wrote:
Cool.
Would it be possible to use two backends (Cocoa and X11) in one Lisp ?
I don't see why not (well - I can see why not for the current state of the code) - this was something I was going to try once I'm a little further along. Certainly the CLIM spec indicates that this kind of thing *should* be possible (which I suspect you well know 8-). I'd also like to experiment with multi-heading too, which should also work (when the code is finished). In fact, I'm expecting to be able to run the following simultaneously: + one window in X11 through the CLX back end on the default screen + one window in Cocoa with the "standard" McCLIM L&F on the default screen + one window in Cocoa with the Cocoa L&F on the default screen + and all of the above on another screen also -Duncan
On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 05:26 PM, Brian Mastenbrook wrote:
Greetings fellow lispites,
How is the McCLIM/Cocoa effort going? I haven't seen any news for a while and I'm dying to play with it (even if it doesn't work). Is there a CVS repository?
Brian -- Brian Mastenbrook bmastenb@cs.indiana.edu http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
_______________________________________________ mac-lisp-ide site list mac-lisp-ide@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/mac-lisp-ide
participants (5)
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Brian Mastenbrook -
Duncan Rose -
mikel evins -
Rainer Joswig -
Timothy Moore