I think what it comes down to is there simply is no beginner level guide written (or even tutorial that I can find) which says "here's how to create an application." Because, at root level, that's what new developers are asking - I have an interface in my head, how do build it and I get it to run?
One suggestion I do have is an extension of the requests to include the file-selector as a component in McCLIM - create a library of "standard interface components" that people can quickly bolt together, and then they will have only to define the tricky, application specific parts of the code. Thinks like menu bars, file-selectors, tabbed windows, scrollable windows, status bars, slidable controllers, button palettes, example configuration dialogs, etc. would be really nice to have available as bolt on components. These would also form a very good basis for a graphical UI designer ala glade or QT Designer. For each of these, a sort of mini API can be defined, and how they are implimented internally can change without bothering user code. This is probably way beyond the CLIM spec, but it would be an excellent way to lower the barrier of entry. And as people create new components, if appropriate they can be added to the available library until it's only a special case presentation like a spreadsheet grid or a mathematical document or an image editing display/interaction that would need to be custom written - most of the rest of the graphical components could be gotten from "standard" or even previous custom objects contributed to the library. And a graphical CLIM interface builder could possibly go a long way towards helping people create "correct" code or at least avoid errors.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
CY
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On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 10:53 -0700, C Y wrote:
I think what it comes down to is there simply is no beginner level guide written (or even tutorial that I can find) which says "here's how to create an application." Because, at root level, that's what new developers are asking - I have an interface in my head, how do build it and I get it to run?
This will go a long way in getting people to switch.
I've already started working on just such a guide. My current working document (mostly notes and an outline) is in OpenOffice.org format. If there is interest in adding the document to McCLIM I'd be happy to convert it to another format.
One suggestion I do have is an extension of the requests to include the file-selector as a component in McCLIM - create a library of "standard interface components" that people can quickly bolt together, and then they will have only to define the tricky, application specific parts of the code. Thinks like menu bars, file-selectors, tabbed windows, scrollable windows, status bars, slidable controllers, button palettes, example configuration dialogs, etc. would be really nice to have available as bolt on components. These would also form a very good basis for a graphical UI designer ala glade or QT Designer. For each of these, a sort of mini API can be defined, and how they are implimented internally can change without bothering user code. This is probably way beyond the CLIM spec, but it would be an excellent way to lower the barrier of entry. And as people create new components, if appropriate they can be added to the available library until it's only a special case presentation like a spreadsheet grid or a mathematical document or an image editing display/interaction that would need to be custom written - most of the rest of the graphical components could be gotten from "standard" or even previous custom objects contributed to the library.
And a graphical CLIM interface builder could possibly go a long way towards helping people create "correct" code or at least avoid errors.
I built one of these more than 10 years ago. I'll dust off the code and post it to the list in the next few days. (It probably needs updating since I haven't looked at it in at least 5 years.)
Craig
On Apr 28, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Craig Lanning wrote:
On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 10:53 -0700, C Y wrote:
I think what it comes down to is there simply is no beginner level guide written (or even tutorial that I can find) which says "here's how to create an application." Because, at root level, that's what new developers are asking - I have an interface in my head, how do build it and I get it to run?
This will go a long way in getting people to switch.
I've already started working on just such a guide. My current working document (mostly notes and an outline) is in OpenOffice.org format. If there is interest in adding the document to McCLIM I'd be happy to convert it to another format.
Also, a chapter of my dissertation is "A First Application in CLIM" and will be part of the McCLIM documentation. It will be finished "soon," like in a couple of weeks.
Tim
"C" == C Y <C> writes:
C> I think what it comes down to is there simply is no beginner level C> guide written (or even tutorial that I can find) which says "here's how C> to create an application." Because, at root level, that's what new C> developers are asking - I have an interface in my head, how do build it C> and I get it to run?
There is actually a good tutorial article,
http://kantz.com/jason/clim-primer/
The only thing wrong with it is that there isn't more of it!
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C Y -
Craig Lanning -
Robert P. Goldman -
Timothy Moore