yes I'm dragging my feet about getting out the door to Yakima. Tomorrow, I swear. Maybe even early for a change. I've unsubscribed from the Gardeners mailing list. Reasons: - Many of the posts aren't following their charter. A lot of things people propose aren't "weed pulling" or "maintenance" projects. They're heavy duty build-a-lot-of-stuff efforts. At least, this is my perception skimming the proposals floating into my inbox. Too many "from scratch" projects. As a person with plenty of my own projects, who could generate projects for LispSea until the cows come home, it's a turnoff. When people post a lot of "from scratch" projects that they haven't even started yet, I have a hard time taking them seriously. I assume, based on 14 years of internet experience with such things, that they won't get anything done and won't make good work partners. - Other posts are following the charter, i.e. meaningful usability and showcasing improvements to things already extant. But they happen to be projects I'm not interested in. Generally, I am already doing the projects I'm interested in. I may be exceptional in that I've scoured the Earth for projects that meet my own goals and aspirations. Nothing's out there that does what I want, I've bazillion-checked it. So I'm doing the things I want. I'll worry about dragging other people into my projects as they get farther underway. I realize not everyone's in my shoes. People may show up to LispSea with an amiable disposition, have energy to do projects, and happily slot themselves into whatever the Gardeners are up to. But for Windows game development in high level languages, there's nothing out there at all. - The focus is Common Lisp and I'm a Chicken Schemer. I'm happy to work with the CL crowd on open source Windows and OpenGL issues. But it's never going to get the bulk of my attention, not unless there's $$$$$ in it somewhere. I've chosen my toolset and made my sweat investments. I'm determined to make Chicken Scheme the best game development enviornment on any platform. For game developers whose brains work a certain way, of course. - LispSea projects are way more important to me than Gardeners projects. If two birds can be killed with one stone that's great, but I'm far more confident in local partnerships and efforts, should the stars align. "How will it improve the Lisp job market in Seattle?" is the first thing on my mind for any LispSea project. My takeaway is, I believe strongly in people networking their personal interests. I'd like to put tools in front of people, and enact the needed communication rituals, so that it happens. I see that as the LispSea priority, organizing and networking people on the local level. I don't see "doing whatever the Gardeners are doing" as a priority. It's an available venue for partnerships, but partnerships can come from other quarters as well. Mostly, I'd like to see us concentrate on *local* partnerships. Things where face-to-face is a decided value add for getting things done. Cheers, Brandon Van Every