[LispSea] so much for stone soup
Maybe I've been stuck in an outmoded idea... Maybe there is no longer much use for the kind of users' group that I've been advocating. Then again, I foolishly expected that by putting LispSea in motion again, others would step up to action. Not words-- action. While I don't mind doing the necessary work, I won't do /all/ the work myself. I suggest continuing the mailing list solely for purposes of finding local Lisp people easily. Nothing more. That is, you won't receive another post by me on this list unless I have something like a Lisp job to be filled or the seminar/workshop effort makes real progress. Thanks for exploring this idea with me over the past month. I've already updated the wiki. http://wiki.alu.org/lispsea?version=17 Take care, -Daniel PS - if you don't know the reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup
Daniel, I'm disappointed. You give up too easily. I just volunteered to do some teaching in the context you asked about. How many people are on this list? Ira Daniel J Pezely wrote:
Maybe I've been stuck in an outmoded idea...
Maybe there is no longer much use for the kind of users' group that I've been advocating.
Then again, I foolishly expected that by putting LispSea in motion again, others would step up to action. Not words-- action. While I don't mind doing the necessary work, I won't do /all/ the work myself.
I suggest continuing the mailing list solely for purposes of finding local Lisp people easily. Nothing more.
That is, you won't receive another post by me on this list unless I have something like a Lisp job to be filled or the seminar/workshop effort makes real progress.
Thanks for exploring this idea with me over the past month.
I've already updated the wiki. http://wiki.alu.org/lispsea?version=17
Take care, -Daniel
PS - if you don't know the reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup _______________________________________________ seattle mailing list seattle@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seattle
Daniel J Pezely wrote:
Maybe I've been stuck in an outmoded idea...
Maybe there is no longer much use for the kind of users' group that I've been advocating.
Then again, I foolishly expected that by putting LispSea in motion again, others would step up to action. Not words-- action. While I don't mind doing the necessary work, I won't do /all/ the work myself.
I agree it's foolish. The job of a leader, whether for a group or a project, is to shoulder a potentially enormous amount of work to plant the 1st seed of something. Other people are really only along for the ride and will not do anything until their personal threshold of critical mass has been reached. Even then, they likely won't do anything because in the real world people have to pay bills, do their own tech jobs, spend time with SOs, families, and dogs, etc. Money is what focuses people to do more than that. This has been my experience over the last 14 years of mailing lists and attempts at open source business models. You have a grand vision. The problem with grand visions is, they're tons of work. If you set your initial sights lower, I believe you'd have more success. SeaFunc is nowhere near as amazing as all the things you've proposed, but it is sustainable, and it does grow. It grows at the rate of actual energy that people are willing to put in. A motivated person such as you or I can augment such energy, but there is always the base curve of available energy to be reckoned with. That's reality. I've seen groups with more people and resources evaporate. For instance, the Alias NW Users Group was well funded, had significant commercial sponsors for running contests with prize money, and had large attendance. I don't have all the reasons why it imploded, but I suspect that as a cultural activity, it was really the product of 2 or 3 key individuals and many followers not doing much. I wanted to do more for it, but the vision of the President of the group was not technically compatible with what I wanted to do. He was all Linux Linux Linux high end film development, and he didn't want to hear about Windows, cross-platform, or games really. In other words, it wasn't my fault. There was a time when my full energies were offered, but he didn't like it. So my full energies went to CMake and Chicken Scheme. I've continued those partnerships for 9 months now and they're still going fine. The lesson I take way from that is, work with what you've got in front of you, not with what you ideally want.
Thanks for exploring this idea with me over the past month.
No problem. I think you've seen the actual level of manpower you have to work with. Now the question is, are any of your personal goals still attainable under such circumstances. There just isn't an army of people out there to get any particular thing done. Armies have to be built, and it's a tricky business. Cheers, Brandon Van Every
Daniel, I'm bummed, I was really looking forward to the group. I should have spoken up earlier, but: I'm a bit of a newbie to Lisp, so that really does not qualify me for teaching, but I am willing to contribute in any other way that I can. If anything I would just like to meet other lispers in the area, it does not have to be a formal group to start. Thanks for your efforts in attempting to get this group going. If there is still any hope of getting something going, even informal, let me know what I can do to help! Anthony F. On 7/3/06, Daniel J Pezely <djp06@speakeasy.net> wrote:
Maybe I've been stuck in an outmoded idea...
Maybe there is no longer much use for the kind of users' group that I've been advocating.
Then again, I foolishly expected that by putting LispSea in motion again, others would step up to action. Not words-- action. While I don't mind doing the necessary work, I won't do /all/ the work myself.
I suggest continuing the mailing list solely for purposes of finding local Lisp people easily. Nothing more.
That is, you won't receive another post by me on this list unless I have something like a Lisp job to be filled or the seminar/workshop effort makes real progress.
Thanks for exploring this idea with me over the past month.
I've already updated the wiki. http://wiki.alu.org/lispsea?version=17
Take care, -Daniel
PS - if you don't know the reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup _______________________________________________ seattle mailing list seattle@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seattle
Anthony Fairchild wrote:
Daniel,
I'm bummed, I was really looking forward to the group. I should have spoken up earlier, but: I'm a bit of a newbie to Lisp, so that really does not qualify me for teaching, but I am willing to contribute in any other way that I can. If anything I would just like to meet other lispers in the area, it does not have to be a formal group to start.
Well, ok, let's put this to rest right now. If Daniel won't lead, I will. Or I will lead until Daniel comes to his senses. The problem with my own brand of leadership, is I've got financial issues and I may have to abscond to, say, Colorado to make more money. If my job situation was stable, I'd call a meeting immediately, say for 1 to 2 weeks hence. But as it stands, this week I have to figure out how I'm going to pay the bills next month. Once I've figured that out, I'll make an announce. Perhaps by then, Daniel will have reconsidered and I won't need to. If I call the meeting, it'll be like the SeaFunc format. We'll meet at a bar or restaurant, order our own food and drinks, and talk about Lisp and Scheme stuff. I don't have any presentations to offer, nor will I try to organize one. If anyone has a laptop and wants to do some show-and-tell, that's peachy. When starting a group, there is inherent value in getting people into the same room face-to-face. E-mail isn't that "warm" a medium, as Daniel has discovered. I think people can be more easily motivated to do stuff when they are flesh and blood, not bits and bytes. High probability I will pick the same date, time, and venue as either the SeaFunc or Ruby meetings. I'm perfectly happy if in practice, the group resembles a large contingent of SeaFuncers who are only discussing Lisp and Scheme.
Thanks for your efforts in attempting to get this group going. If there is still any hope of getting something going, even informal, let me know what I can do to help!
The best thing you could do is be sure to show up and run your gob if I do call a meeting. :-) Groups require a quorum to get going. I definitely think we have a quorum now. If Daniel wants to reassert himself and do more than what I'm suggesting, that's great, I'm all for it. In other groups, I have often been the gadfly that spurs people to get on with it and do greater things. I just don't accept things like despair for an answer. Let's not forget that the Lisp, Scheme, and OCaml groups were the kernels that made SeaFunc, and that it worked. Cheers, Brandon Van Every
This is absurd - you haven't even met or called me yet. I can do several presentations just off-the-cuff as long as the venue is quiet and people are ready for it. I don't intend to do a lot of pre-planning, because I work my ass off already on a startup and am not going to lay it on the line for a user group. But I love explaining concepts, sharing ideas, and showing things off - one of my favorite jobs has always been tutoring, and I'm quite good at it when I have the energy. If you want a consultants' support group, great, but don't expend all this energy trying to manipulate us via email and then be disappointed before the first meeting. People need a chance to get together and decide what kind of social space they'd like to create. Don't decide by fiat one way or the other for everyone just because of your personal tempo and expectations. On 7/3/06, Daniel J Pezely <djp06@speakeasy.net> wrote:
Maybe I've been stuck in an outmoded idea...
Maybe there is no longer much use for the kind of users' group that I've been advocating.
Then again, I foolishly expected that by putting LispSea in motion again, others would step up to action. Not words-- action. While I don't mind doing the necessary work, I won't do /all/ the work myself.
I suggest continuing the mailing list solely for purposes of finding local Lisp people easily. Nothing more.
That is, you won't receive another post by me on this list unless I have something like a Lisp job to be filled or the seminar/workshop effort makes real progress.
Thanks for exploring this idea with me over the past month.
I've already updated the wiki. http://wiki.alu.org/lispsea?version=17
Take care, -Daniel
PS - if you don't know the reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup _______________________________________________ seattle mailing list seattle@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seattle
-- -Brian T. Rice
Brian Rice wrote:
People need a chance to get together and decide what kind of social space they'd like to create. Don't decide by fiat one way or the other for everyone just because of your personal tempo and expectations.
And again, I would emphasize, face-to-face meetings are important to prevent people from developing ill will via e-mail. It is very easy for people to project, misinterpret, get upset, lose attention span, etc. when communication is virtual. Much lower risk of feathers being ruffled when done in person. At this point, a meeting is going to happen. It is only a question of how much will happen at a 1st meeting, and I have no problem with kicking an "alpha" out the door. Cheers, Brandon Van Every
I'll see if my work is willing to host ... I know we do for a number of the other users groups ... I've definately got the floor space to provide a nice quiet place for us to get together .... Without stating it too heavily, let's just say, I'm work at a large seattle-based e-comm company ... I'll keep everybody in the loop as soon as I get some word back... --jw.
And by host, I mean provide a venue, we're close to food, so people can buy or bring what they like ... But, that's almost ahead of itself ... I'll start checking tomorrow morning and let everybody know if I can make it work. --jw. On 7/3/06, Jeff Wood <jeff.darklight@gmail.com> wrote:
I'll see if my work is willing to host ... I know we do for a number of the other users groups ... I've definately got the floor space to provide a nice quiet place for us to get together ....
Without stating it too heavily, let's just say, I'm work at a large seattle-based e-comm company ...
I'll keep everybody in the loop as soon as I get some word back...
--jw.
Jeff, Thanks, this would be great. I'd enjoy meeting some more people. There are a lot of diverse people here at the UW, but it is always interesting to get a bigger picture. I went to the Association of Lisp Users meeting in 1998, met Paul Graham, John McCarthy, a bunch of other legendary people, and it was very much fun to hear about work going on in industry. I'm not fussy about food or drink - people and a comfortable place are enough. Ira Kalet Jeff Wood wrote:
And by host, I mean provide a venue, we're close to food, so people can buy or bring what they like ...
But, that's almost ahead of itself ... I'll start checking tomorrow morning and let everybody know if I can make it work.
--jw.
On 7/3/06, Jeff Wood <jeff.darklight@gmail.com> wrote:
I'll see if my work is willing to host ... I know we do for a number of the other users groups ... I've definately got the floor space to provide a nice quiet place for us to get together ....
Without stating it too heavily, let's just say, I'm work at a large seattle-based e-comm company ...
I'll keep everybody in the loop as soon as I get some word back...
--jw.
_______________________________________________ seattle mailing list seattle@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seattle
This is great, I'm glad to see things materializing again. I'm looking forward to the first meeting!
I went to the Association of Lisp Users meeting in 1998, met Paul Graham, John McCarthy, a bunch of other legendary people, and it was very much fun to hear about work going on in industry.
Very cool! I'd love to hear more about this experience.
AnthonyF
participants (6)
-
Anthony Fairchild -
Brandon J. Van Every -
Brian Rice -
Daniel J Pezely -
Ira Kalet -
Jeff Wood