dear list,
have anybody ever tought of cutting up slime.el into more files? especially cutting out the framework'ey and compatibility bits into a file that can be loaded at the head of slime.el. but also other sections could be cut out, like fuzzy completion, sldb, etc.
i may not be aware of something, but i think it's not reasonable that slime.el is a single 450k file.
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
if they were in slime-compatibility.el or a bigger slime-utils.el then it could be loaded easily at the top of slime.el.
any opinions?
I like Attila's idea; small is beautiful.
On Feb 1, 2007, at 6:37 AM, Attila Lendvai wrote:
dear list,
have anybody ever tought of cutting up slime.el into more files? especially cutting out the framework'ey and compatibility bits into a file that can be loaded at the head of slime.el. but also other sections could be cut out, like fuzzy completion, sldb, etc.
i may not be aware of something, but i think it's not reasonable that slime.el is a single 450k file.
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
if they were in slime-compatibility.el or a bigger slime-utils.el then it could be loaded easily at the top of slime.el.
any opinions?
--
- attila
"- The truth is that I've been too considerate, and so became unintentionally cruel...
- I understand.
- No, you don't understand! We don't speak the same language!"
(Ingmar Bergman - Smultronstället) _______________________________________________ slime-devel site list slime-devel@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/slime-devel
-- Gary Warren King, metabang.com Cell: (413) 885 9127 Fax: (206) 338-4052 gwkkwg on Skype * garethsan on AIM
* Attila Lendvai [2007-02-01 12:37+0100] writes:
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
Attila, there is not enough room for both us on this project. Either you leave or I'll leave it.
Helmut.
Helmut Eller wrote:
- Attila Lendvai [2007-02-01 12:37+0100] writes:
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
Attila, there is not enough room for both us on this project. Either you leave or I'll leave it.
Whoa, hey man, slow down. I don't think we (lispers) should start arguing with each other. There isn't that many lisp developers and we need all the people we can get.
Jyrki Jaakkola
This sounds like an ultimatum and that is really sad I think.
Maybe this is a reason strong enough to use a better version control system and to split the incredible huge slime.el into smaller parts. This would make both of you enough room I think.
Regards, levy
Helmut,
If this is a joke, I'd suggest marking it as such. If it isn't, then it's very sad that we can't all get along.
Do you have specific complaints about the current process and procedures that could be discussed?
On Feb 1, 2007, at 8:53 AM, Helmut Eller wrote:
- Attila Lendvai [2007-02-01 12:37+0100] writes:
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
Attila, there is not enough room for both us on this project. Either you leave or I'll leave it.
Helmut.
slime-devel site list slime-devel@common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/slime-devel
-- Gary Warren King, metabang.com Cell: (413) 885 9127 Fax: (206) 338-4052 gwkkwg on Skype * garethsan on AIM
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
Attila, there is not enough room for both us on this project. Either you leave or I'll leave it.
uh, i'm surprised to hear this. i guess this is the point in movies when people quietly start to flee from the bar... :)
but seriously, my wording may have been ambigous... i didn't mean it as a critique that you moved those functions out of the way - i also cosider that a good change. i'm simply trying to minimize the distance between the branches while keeping them in sync.
and to make it also clear: my branch only exists for clearly practical reasons, there are no bad feelings behind on my part.
otoh, i don't know what else i could say. in a way i'm already off this project by not committing to the cvs anymore (to avoid these kind of arguments). but until now i tought that i'll share those ideas/changes of mine that i think are most probably not against the desire of most of the users.
* Attila Lendvai [2007-02-01 15:56+0100] writes:
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
Attila, there is not enough room for both us on this project. Either you leave or I'll leave it.
uh, i'm surprised to hear this. i guess this is the point in movies when people quietly start to flee from the bar... :)
but seriously, my wording may have been ambigous... i didn't mean it as a critique that you moved those functions out of the way - i also cosider that a good change. i'm simply trying to minimize the distance between the branches while keeping them in sync.
and to make it also clear: my branch only exists for clearly practical reasons, there are no bad feelings behind on my part.
otoh, i don't know what else i could say. in a way i'm already off this project by not committing to the cvs anymore (to avoid these kind of arguments). but until now i tought that i'll share those ideas/changes of mine that i think are most probably not against the desire of most of the users.
My patience with you is exhausted. You repeatedly said that you don't like the way that I/we work. You even created a fork and advertised it on any occasion. Do you expect that I work for you to make it easier for you to maintain it? Do you expect that I spend the time to answer your questions? You can share your ideas with those people who use your fork, but your comments on this list are certainly against my desire.
Helmut.
Helmut Eller wrote:
- Attila Lendvai [2007-02-01 15:56+0100] writes:
my actual problem is that Helmut moved some annoying compatibility definitions out of the way (to the end of the file) but i'm using some of them in the darcs repo while loading. i've moved these back to the head of the file there, but such changes are moving the branches further away.
Attila, there is not enough room for both us on this project. Either you leave or I'll leave it.
uh, i'm surprised to hear this. i guess this is the point in movies when people quietly start to flee from the bar... :)
but seriously, my wording may have been ambigous... i didn't mean it as a critique that you moved those functions out of the way - i also cosider that a good change. i'm simply trying to minimize the distance between the branches while keeping them in sync.
and to make it also clear: my branch only exists for clearly practical reasons, there are no bad feelings behind on my part.
otoh, i don't know what else i could say. in a way i'm already off this project by not committing to the cvs anymore (to avoid these kind of arguments). but until now i tought that i'll share those ideas/changes of mine that i think are most probably not against the desire of most of the users.
My patience with you is exhausted. You repeatedly said that you don't like the way that I/we work. You even created a fork and advertised it on any occasion. Do you expect that I work for you to make it easier for you to maintain it? Do you expect that I spend the time to answer your questions? You can share your ideas with those people who use your fork, but your comments on this list are certainly against my desire.
The problem with communicating through emails is that it's very easy to interpret what people say differently than they meant as there is only text and no expressions. It's also that we may reply too hastily and without thinking which causes us to write something we wouldn't normally say. It's better to make it up and move forward than not settle the things. Sometimes we have to make compromises so that things could go on as life isn't all black and white.
As I'm not slime developer I don't have right to say what people should do but I think every project needs new blood now and then and also the ideas which new people bring to the project. It's also that as there comes new people which try to learn lisp there may come more platforms which we should support that we don't drive those new people away from lisp.
We all have our faults but I think we shouldn't think only about ourselves but the whole community. These kinds of disparities could cause quite much ruckus, even causing many good projects to grind to halt as people have gone away from the project because of disparities.
Although it could be seen as I'm taking sides on this I'm not against one or the other as both have good ideas and good causes. I would like to see them making it up. This doesn't mean that I want people to act like nothing has happened but I would like to see people come to terms with each other. I know from own experience that it isn't easy to make it up with other people.
Sincerely,
Jyrki Jaakkola
I like the name SLIME but I wish the list wasn't starting to take on its characteristics.
Sigh. Lisp's lovely community relations problem rears its ugly ugly head again. What is this serving? Anyone? Anything? I don't see it.
-- Gary Warren King, metabang.com Cell: (413) 885 9127 Fax: (206) 338-4052 gwkkwg on Skype * garethsan on AIM
+ Gary King gwking@metabang.com:
| I like the name SLIME but I wish the list wasn't starting to take on | its characteristics.
Take it easy, this won't infect the entire list if we don't let it.
| Sigh. Lisp's lovely community relations problem rears its ugly ugly | head again. What is this serving? Anyone? Anything? I don't see it.
Shit happens, sometimes people just can't get along. This is not unique to Lisp or computers. It happens everywhere, online or offline. Let those who feel they can negotiate a resolution of the conflict try to do so, and otherwise, just stand back until whole thing blows over. It's not the end of the world. (I speak as a relative outsider. I lurk here most of the time, and don't read everything carefully enough to be able to apportion blame. Which may be one reason I can watch this calmly from the sidelines without being bothered about it.)
- Harald
+ Harald Hanche-Olsen hanche@math.ntnu.no:
| It's not the end of the world.
+ 美佐代 nelson13352000@yahoo.co.jp:
| 美奈代です。何度もすみません。
On second thought, with language like that on the list, maybe it is the end of the world after all.
- Harald
"Attila" == Attila Lendvai attila.lendvai@gmail.com writes:
Attila> i may not be aware of something, but i think it's not Attila> reasonable that slime.el is a single 450k file.
Not necessarily the worlds most important objection but splitting up slime.el may easily to a number of loading problems. Things are just easier for the user with one file to load and one pair of .el/.elc files to check for out-of-date-ness. I am scared that tracking CVS directly becomes more difficult and/or less robust if there are makefile or hand-written code and dependencies to track.
Splitting up slime.el should be done if the slime developers find it hard to navigate the file and thus would feel it a useful thing to do, IMHO.
------------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Christian Lynbech | christian #@ defun #. dk ------------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual. - petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
-
Attila Lendvai -
Christian Lynbech -
Gary King -
Harald Hanche-Olsen -
Helmut Eller -
Jyrki Jaakkola -
Levente Mészáros