Nikodemus, Erik, and Mario,
Everyone brought up a good point regarding the legalities of the distribution, I'll actually refer this to my legal guy but I don't see this as a problem.
For instance, if someone copied the ISO and put it on Common-Lisp.net, that would clearly be a violation. However, this is a living breathing project that is currently well over a year old now. We have many plans and directons to take the CD which means that it's not something I'm going to drop it on your site then forget about. I'll be needing to update the documentation, web-page and ISO image anywhere between a bi-weekly to monthly basis. I'd also like to count the downloads and keep in touch with users via mailing lists etc.
With that much artistic control at my disposal, the relationship between myself/LispNYC and Common-Lisp.net becomes one of collaberation and resource sharing rather than Common-Lisp.net simply 'distributing' it.
I've attached the CD license for your pleasure, if there is anything that concerns you about it I'd be happy to modify it. ...for instance I can think of adding Common-Lisp.net (or a similiar clause) falling under the umbrella of liability.
FYI, although the license sounds like it expects the world to end, it is a standard format for things like compliations. Also the CD is based on the STABLE version of Knoppix. Interesting enough, both Nils Magnus and Klaus Knopper attended LinuxWorld AND the MuSIG group of LispNYC (yes, they are Lisp fans and musicians) where we talked shop, swapped pointers and doused my fears of a live CD actually breaking hardware.
Thanks,
- Heow
On Jan 29, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Heow Eide-Goodman wrote:
Everyone brought up a good point regarding the legalities of the distribution, I'll actually refer this to my legal guy but I don't see this as a problem.
Great, I guess we'll wait for final confirmation from your legal guy but as you describe the situation later in your email I'm now pretty much in agreement with you.
So, on to practical matters (assuming the legalities work themselves out): I suggest setting up a proper project for your CD. What would you like it to be named?
Note on licensing: I still feel that the code available on common-lisp.net needs to have a so-called "free" license (I prefer MIT but BSD, LLGPL etc. are ok too) so I'd like it if you didn't commit any code in your project's CVS tree that wasn't under such a license. Does that sound ok?
Erik.
Certainly! I feel strongly about that too as any code that I write will be under the GPL.
...which will be more actually, the CD originally started out for use in the Robocup Simulation League and is quickly moving down the path to be used in both our MuSIG and our Robo Trader groups.
Personally, I'd like to see it used as a CL web-development platform! Hey, we control the environment 100% and can easly run a webserver+db+UncommonSQL.
...then there are the aspects of predictivly teaching lisp... it just never ends. :-)
- Heow
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 11:40, Erik Enge wrote:
On Jan 29, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Heow Eide-Goodman wrote:
Everyone brought up a good point regarding the legalities of the distribution, I'll actually refer this to my legal guy but I don't see this as a problem.
Great, I guess we'll wait for final confirmation from your legal guy but as you describe the situation later in your email I'm now pretty much in agreement with you.
So, on to practical matters (assuming the legalities work themselves out): I suggest setting up a proper project for your CD. What would you like it to be named?
Note on licensing: I still feel that the code available on common-lisp.net needs to have a so-called "free" license (I prefer MIT but BSD, LLGPL etc. are ok too) so I'd like it if you didn't commit any code in your project's CVS tree that wasn't under such a license. Does that sound ok?
Erik.
Heow Eide-Goodman heow@alphageeksinc.com writes:
Certainly! I feel strongly about that too as any code that I write will be under the GPL.
Ok. (I assume you reply to "please only code that is free in the cvs tree")
...which will be more actually, the CD originally started out for use in the Robocup Simulation League and is quickly moving down the path to be used in both our MuSIG and our Robo Trader groups.
Personally, I'd like to see it used as a CL web-development platform! Hey, we control the environment 100% and can easly run a webserver+db+UncommonSQL.
...then there are the aspects of predictivly teaching lisp... it just never ends. :-)
Certainly, we like the idea too :).
Like Erik said, let's wait for the legal advise you get, but it seems to me that if you distribute it through the ftp space that /belongs to your project/, we might be reasonably secure.
Thus, as far as I am concerned, I approve.
If there is a porblem with the ISO, we will have to look into that.
How do you want to name the project?
Regards, Mario.
I just got off the phone with my lawyer guy, and she :-) assured me that it wouldn't be a problem. To simplify the talk she likened it to the relationship that a producer has to a retailer.
But just in case we're going to tweak the license, just to make it more explicit.
I'm currently tapping the intelect of LispNYC for a better more perminant name, the ideas so far:
I'm considering: * Learning Lisp CD * Lisp Resource Kit * Lisp Resource CD * Hacker's Guide to Lisp * Lisp Education CD * Lisp Teaching CD * Web Development, Music, Demo and Lisp/Scheme Language Platform * Lisp Starter Kit * Heow's Excellent Lisp CD * Lisp In A Drum * Barrel Full of LISP
:-)
Thanks,
- Heow
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Heow Eide-Goodman wrote:
I just got off the phone with my lawyer guy, and she :-) assured me that it wouldn't be a problem. To simplify the talk she likened it to the relationship that a producer has to a retailer.
Good, good.
I'm currently tapping the intelect of LispNYC for a better more perminant name, the ideas so far:
Just a though: do you want this to be an umbrella for LispNYC projects, or do you want to keep this separate?
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus Siivola
I'm still waiting on the license revisions but have settled on...
Lisp Resource Kit
...as the name of the project. If you guys are comfortable we can get set up but not link it in untill everything is in order.
I'll also thank Common-Lisp.net on the CD, I mean kit.
Just a though: do you want this to be an umbrella for LispNYC projects, or do you want to keep this separate?
I'd just say to keep it seperate. One of the main reasons is that LispNYC, being a volunteer organization, may have projects that come and go. This has been one of the constant ones.
I'd also not want to confuse anyone regarding licensing as most of our work is BSDed or GPLed.
- Heow
On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 03:48, Nikodemus Siivola wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Heow Eide-Goodman wrote:
I just got off the phone with my lawyer guy, and she :-) assured me that it wouldn't be a problem. To simplify the talk she likened it to the relationship that a producer has to a retailer.
Good, good.
I'm currently tapping the intelect of LispNYC for a better more perminant name, the ideas so far:
Just a though: do you want this to be an umbrella for LispNYC projects, or do you want to keep this separate?
Cheers,
-- Nikodemus Siivola
On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:32 PM, Heow Eide-Goodman wrote:
I'm still waiting on the license revisions but have settled on...
Lisp Resource Kit
...as the name of the project. If you guys are comfortable we can get set up but not link it in untill everything is in order.
That name is fine except that Linux will only allow fifteen characters in a group name and project names are also group names (makes permissions straightforward). How about lisp-res-kit as a project name? You can call it Lisp Resource Kit on its webpages, of course.
Erik.
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Erik Enge -
Heow Eide-Goodman -
Mario Mommer -
Nikodemus Siivola