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[Final CfP] 18th European Lisp Symposium -- Extended Deadline
by Didier Verna 02 Mar '25

02 Mar '25

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 18th European Lisp Symposium Last Call for Papers *** Extended Deadline *** May 19-20 2025 SGH, Zurich, Switzerland https://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/2025 Sponsered by SGH ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Special Focus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This year, we suggest a special focus on artificial intelligence, and meta-programming beyond macros. Invited Speakers ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Joerg Gutknecht -- Project Oberon: A Late Appraisal Anurag Mendhekar -- Is Lisp Still Relevant in the New Age of AI? Robert Smith -- Toward safe, flexible, and efficient software in Common Lisp Important Dates ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - Registration opens: Dec 10 2024 - Submission deadline: Mar 09 2025 ( *** extended *** ) - Author notification: Mar 30 2025 - Final papers due: Apr 13 2025 - Early Registration: May 04 2025 - Symposium: May 19-20 2025 Scope ~~~~~ The European Lisp Symposium is a premier forum for the discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, implementation, and application of any of the Lisp dialects, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, Clojure, Racket, ACL2, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, SKILL, Hy, Shen, Carp, Janet, uLisp, Picolisp, Gamelisp, TXR, and so on. We encourage everyone interested in Lisp to participate. The European Lisp Symposium invites high quality papers about novel research results, insights and lessons learned from practical applications, and educational perspectives. We also encourage submissions about known ideas as long as they are presented in a new setting and/or in a highly elegant way. Topics include but are not limited to: - context-, aspect-, domain-oriented and generative programming - macro-, reflective-, meta- and/or rule-based development approaches - language design and implementation - language integration, inter-operation, and deployment - development methodologies, support, and environments - educational approaches and perspectives - experience reports and case studies Technical Program ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We invite submissions in the following forms. Papers and experience reports must not overlap significantly with the authors’ previously published work in a peer reviewed publication, and must not be under review on another journal or conference. Also, authors must agree with our publication ethics and malpractice statement (cf. https://european-lisp-symposium.org/pepms.html) * Papers: technical papers of up to 8 pages that describe original results or explain known ideas in new and elegant ways. * Experience reports: papers of up to 6 pages describing a successful use of a Lisp dialect and/or analyzing obstacles that have kept it from working in practice. * Tutorials: abstracts of up to 4 pages for in-depth presentations about topics of special interest. * Demonstrations: abstracts of up to 4 pages for demonstrations of tools, libraries, and applications. For information on the submission format, please refer to the "Submission" section at https://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/2025. Submissions should be uploaded to Easy Chair at the following link: http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=els2025. Note: to help us with the review process please indicate the type of submission in the title field in the submission form. Programme Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ François-René Rideau Đặng-Vũ Bân, MuKn, USA Organizing Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Didier Verna, EPITA / LRE, France Programme Committee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Conrad Barski, USA Marc Battyani, Enfabrica, USA Dave Cooper, Genworks, USA Ryan Culpepper, University of Massachusetts Boston, USA Eitaro Fukamachi, Japan Robert Goldman, SIFT, USA Gavin Gray, Brown University, USA Jason Hemann, Seton Hall University, USA Kristopher Micinski, Syracuse University, USA Marco Morazan, Seton Hall University, USA Michael Raskin, LaBRI, France Masatoshi Sano, Nayuta, Japan Dimitris Vyzovitis, Mighty Gerbils Local Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~ Yukari Hafner, Shirakumo.org, Switzerland Virtualization Team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Georgiy Tugai, Configura, Sweden Yukari Hafner, Shirakumo.org, Switzerland -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Lisp, Jazz, Aïkido: http://www.didierverna.info

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bug: compiled function behaves differently than interpreted
by samuel.edwin.ward＠gmail.com 13 Dec '24

13 Dec '24

I initially discovered this in 1.9.2 with slime and all that, but I reproduced this on a build of d0a525323b640223bacfb17cde59db995f43cce9 from GitHub with ./abcl --noinit. I don't have a completely minimized case, but it's pretty small. uname -a: Darwin sew-MBA.local 24.1.0 Darwin Kernel Version 24.1.0: Thu Oct 10 21:05:14 PDT 2024; root:xnu-11215.41.3~2/RELEASE_ARM64_T8103 arm64 Reproduction: Armed Bear Common Lisp 1.9.3-dev Java 23.0.1 Homebrew OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM Low-level initialization completed in 0.158 seconds. Startup completed in 0.698 seconds. Type ":help" for a list of available commands. CL-USER(1): (setq class (jcall "arrayType" (jstatic "forPrimitiveName" "java.lang.Class" "float"))) #<java.lang.Class class [F {6290834B}> CL-USER(2): (defun represent (class) (cond ((jcall "isPrimitive" class) (intern (string-upcase (jcall "getName" class)) "KEYWORD")) ((jcall "isArray" class) (list :array (represent (jcall "componentType" class)))) (t (jcall "getName" class)))) REPRESENT CL-USER(3): (represent class) (:ARRAY :FLOAT) CL-USER(4): (compile 'represent) REPRESENT NIL NIL CL-USER(5): (represent class) :FLOAT :EXTERNAL CL-USER(6): I think the interpreted result is correct, but either way it seems like a bug that they're different. My story gets stranger. I tried to reproduce it with DRIBBLE (for this email) and I couldn't: COMMON-LISP-USER> (setq class (jcall "arrayType" (jstatic "forPrimitiveName" "java.lang.Class" "float"))) #<java.lang.Class class [F {194B1E17}> COMMON-LISP-USER> (defun represent (class) (cond ((jcall "isPrimitive" class) (intern (string-upcase (jcall "getName" class)) "KEYWORD")) ((jcall "isArray" class) (list :array (represent (jcall "componentType" class)))) (t (jcall "getName" class)))) REPRESENT COMMON-LISP-USER> (represent class) (:ARRAY :FLOAT) COMMON-LISP-USER> (compile 'represent) REPRESENT COMMON-LISP-USER> (represent class) (:ARRAY :FLOAT) COMMON-LISP-USER> (dribble) If it's any help, I tried re-implementing the function a number of ways, and this was the first one I found that didn't exhibit the problem: (defun represent (class) (if (jcall "isArray" class) (let*((component (jcall "componentType" class)) (mangled (represent component))) (list :array mangled)) (let ((classname (jcall "getName" class))) (if (jcall "isPrimitive" class) (alexandria:make-keyword (string-upcase classname)) (jcall "getName" class))))) Thanks all!

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[CfP] ELS'25, 18th European Lisp Symposium, May 19-20, Zurich
by Didier Verna 10 Dec '24

10 Dec '24

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 18th European Lisp Symposium Call for Papers May 19-20 2025 SGH, Zurich, Switzerland https://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/2025 Sponsered by SGH ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Special Focus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This year, we suggest a special focus on artifical intelligence, and meta-programming beyond macros. Invited Speakers ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anurag Mendhekar Joerg Gutknecht Important Dates ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - Registration opens: Dec 10 2024 - Submission deadline: Mar 02 2025 - Author notification: Mar 30 2025 - Final papers due: Apr 13 2025 - Early Registration: May 04 2025 - Symposium: May 19-20 2025 Scope ~~~~~ The European Lisp Symposium is a premier forum for the discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, implementation, and application of any of the Lisp dialects, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, Clojure, Racket, ACL2, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, SKILL, Hy, Shen, Carp, Janet, uLisp, Picolisp, Gamelisp, TXR, and so on. We encourage everyone interested in Lisp to participate. The European Lisp Symposium invites high quality papers about novel research results, insights and lessons learned from practical applications, and educational perspectives. We also encourage submissions about known ideas as long as they are presented in a new setting and/or in a highly elegant way. Topics include but are not limited to: - context-, aspect-, domain-oriented and generative programming - macro-, reflective-, meta- and/or rule-based development approaches - language design and implementation - language integration, inter-operation, and deployment - development methodologies, support, and environments - educational approaches and perspectives - experience reports and case studies Technical Program ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We invite submissions in the following forms. Papers and experience reports must not overlap significantly with the authors’ previously published work in a peer reviewed publication, and must not be under review on another journal or conference. Also, authors must agree with our publication ethics and malpractice statement (cf. https://european-lisp-symposium.org/pepms.html) * Papers: technical papers of up to 8 pages that describe original results or explain known ideas in new and elegant ways. * Experience reports: papers of up to 6 pages describing a successful use of a Lisp dialect and/or analyzing obstacles that have kept it from working in practice. * Tutorials: abstracts of up to 4 pages for in-depth presentations about topics of special interest. * Demonstrations: abstracts of up to 4 pages for demonstrations of tools, libraries, and applications. For information on the submission format, please refer to the "Submission" section at https://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/2025. Submissions should be uploaded to Easy Chair at the following link: http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=els2025. Note: to help us with the review process please indicate the type of submission in the title field in the submission form. Programme Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ François-René Rideau Đặng-Vũ Bân, MuKn, USA Organizing Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Didier Verna, EPITA / LRE, France Programme Committee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Conrad Barski, USA Marc Battyani, Enfabrica, USA Dave Cooper, Genworks, USA Ryan Culpepper, University of Massachusetts Boston, USA Eitaro Fukamachi, Japan Robert Goldman, SIFT, USA Gavin Gray, Brown University, USA Jason Hemann, Seton Hall University, USA Kristopher Micinski, Syracuse University, USA Marco Morazan, Seton Hall University, USA Michael Raskin, LaBRI, France Masatoshi Sano, Nayuta, Japan Dimitris Vyzovitis, Mighty Gerbils Local Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~ Yukari Hafner, Shirakumo.org, Switzerland Virtualization Team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Georgiy Tugai, Configura, Sweden Yukari Hafner, Shirakumo.org, Switzerland -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Lisp, Jazz, Aïkido: http://www.didierverna.info

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Problem linking ABCL code into a larger Java program
by Robert Goldman 14 Nov '24

14 Nov '24

I've been trying to resuscitate some old code that used some functions I wrote in ABCL into a larger Java system (if anyone cares, the PRISM probabilistic model checker). I'm getting the following error message: ``` ; Compiling jar:file:///Users/rpg/projects/matrics/prism/prism/lib/abcl-contrib.jar!/asdf-jar/package.lisp ... ; (DEFPACKAGE #:ASDF-JAR ...) ; Wrote /Users/rpg/.cache/common-lisp/abcl-1.9.2-fasl43-macosx-arm64/Users/rpg/projects/matrics/prism/prism/lib/abcl-contrib.jar/asdf-jar/package-tmp1FUW82KK.abcl (0.022 seconds) ; Compiling jar:file:///Users/rpg/projects/matrics/prism/prism/lib/abcl-contrib.jar!/asdf-jar/asdf-jar.lisp ... ; (IN-PACKAGE #:ASDF-JAR) ; (DEFUN ADD-SYSTEM-FILES-TO-MAPPING! ...) ; (DEFUN SYSTEMS->HASH-TABLE ...) ; (DEFUN PACKAGE ...) ; (DEFUN ALL-FILES ...) ; (DEFUN RESOLVE-SYSTEM-OR-FEATURE ...) ; (DEFUN DEPENDENT-SYSTEMS ...) ; (DEFUN ARCHIVE-RELATIVE-PATH ...) ; (DEFUN TMPDIR ...) ; (DEFUN ADD-TO-ASDF ...) ; (DEFUN PREPARE-FOR-WAR ...) ; Wrote /Users/rpg/.cache/common-lisp/abcl-1.9.2-fasl43-macosx-arm64/Users/rpg/projects/matrics/prism/prism/lib/abcl-contrib.jar/asdf-jar/asdf-jar-tmpLI46SF5K.abcl (0.206 seconds) #<THREAD "main" native {753AACF}>: Debugger invoked on condition of type TYPE-ERROR The value #<jdk.internal.loader.ClassLoaders$AppClassLoader jdk.internal.loader.ClassLoaders.... {6470078D}> is not of type LIST. [1] CL-USER(1): Exception trying to start ABCL PRISM! ``` backtrace: [gist here](https://gist.github.com/rpgoldman/c50f2d371386d13d4a98e2fe84a86be5") This is Java 23, and I suspect I should be trying an earlier version, but I'm not sure what one. I'm really barely literate in Java, which is why I wrote the code in question in ABCL instead of Java, so I apologize if this question is just plain stupid. Thanks for any clues

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ABCL in a multi-threading environment
by Blake McBride 19 Sep '24

19 Sep '24

Hello, I have a multi-threading Java application (like a web server). ABCL is already added to it but is not used too much. I have a particular need within that application that I think ABCL would be well suited for, but I first need to better understand how ABCL functions in a multithreading environment. What I need is as follows. I have some Lisp code and data that will be defined both by .lisp files and from within Java. This code and data will be used by a multi-threading Java application in a read-only way. However, the Java threads themselves need to be able to introduce Lisp data that must be unique to each thread and gets deleted when the thread ends (presumably by the GC). Is there a way to do this with ABCL? Thank you! Blake McBride

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CDR for Package-Local Nicknames [Feedback Request]
by Alexander Fedorov 06 Jul '24

06 Jul '24

Dear all, Over 10 years ago, SBCL implemented the Package-Local Nicknames (PLNs) extension. Since then, PLNs have also been adopted by multiple implementations (ABCL, CCL, ECL, Clasp, Allegro CL and LispWorks) and are now widely used in many projects. However, PLNs are still considered experimental, as stated in the SBCL manual, since there is no formal specification for them, and each implementation interprets various corner cases differently. While the need for a specification has been previously discussed, I was unable to find any publicly accessible draft for one. Therefore, I have drafted a specification intended to become a CDR document. I initially wrote this draft about a year ago and have recently revised it. You can find the latest version here: https://gleefre.github.io/cdr-package-local-nicknames/index.html. There are currently nine unresolved standardization issues, each with at least one proposed resolution. Input on those issues would be particularly helpful, but any feedback is welcome! P.S. I am sharing this link across multiple platforms to reach as many lispers as possible. This includes various mailing lists (Lisp Pro, CDR-discuss and -devel for various CL implementations); IRC channels (#commonlisp and implementation-specific ones); the Lisp Discord server; several Telegram groups; and a post on Reddit. If you have any suggestions for additional places to share the link, please let me know. My apologies to those receiving this message multiple times. Best regards, Alexander Fedorov.

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[Last CfP] 17th European Lisp Symposium, May 6-7 2024, Vienna
by Didier Verna 18 Feb '24

18 Feb '24

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 17th European Lisp Symposium Call for Papers May 6-7 2024 Federal Computing Center, Vienna, Austria https://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/2024 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Important Dates ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - Submission deadline: Feb. 25 2024 ** EXTENDED ** - Author notification: Mar. 24 2024 - Final papers due: Apr. 14 2024 - Symposium: May 6-7 2024 Scope ~~~~~ The European Lisp Symposium is a premier forum for the discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, implementation, and application of any of the Lisp dialects, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, Clojure, Racket, ACL2, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, SKILL, Hy, Shen, Carp, Janet, uLisp, Picolisp, Gamelisp, TXR, and so on. We encourage everyone interested in Lisp to participate. The European Lisp Symposium invites high quality papers about novel research results, insights and lessons learned from practical applications, and educational perspectives. We also encourage submissions about known ideas as long as they are presented in a new setting and/or in a highly elegant way. Topics include but are not limited to: - context-, aspect-, domain-oriented and generative programming - macro-, reflective-, meta- and/or rule-based development approaches - language design and implementation - language integration, inter-operation, and deployment - development methodologies, support, and environments - educational approaches and perspectives - experience reports and case studies This year, we suggest an emphasis on best practices, approaches, and technologies for building highly recursive and self-adapting architectures, in particular for AI, ML, tool integration and instruction generation, using dynamic programming languages. Technical Program ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We invite submissions in the following forms. * Papers: technical papers of up to 8 pages that describe original results or explain known ideas in new and elegant ways. * Experience reports: papers of up to 6 pages describing a successful use of a Lisp dialect and/or analyzing obstacles that have kept it from working in practice. * Tutorials: abstracts of up to 4 pages for in-depth presentations about topics of special interest. * Demonstrations: abstracts of up to 4 pages for demonstrations of tools, libraries, and applications. All submissions should be formatted following the ACM SIGS guidelines and include ACM Computing Classification System 2012 concepts and terms. Submissions should be uploaded to Easy Chair, at the following link http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=els2024. Note: to help us with the review process please indicate the type of submission by entering either "paper", "demo", or "tutorial" in the Keywords field. Programme Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Giuseppe Attardi, University of Pisa, Italy Organizing Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Didier Verna, EPITA, France Programme Committee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant, Untypable LLC Frederic Peschanski, UPMC/LIP6 Jay McCarthy, UMass Lowell Jim Newton, EPITA Research Lab Kai Selgrad, OTH Regensburg Mark Evenson, not.org Michael Raskin, LaBRI/CNRS UMR 5800, University of Bordeaux Robert Smith, HRL Laboratories LLC Robert P. Goldman, SIFT LLC Stefan Monnier, Université de Montréal Local Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~ Philipp Marek, BRZ, Vienna, Austria Virtualization Team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Georgiy Tugai, Configura, Sweden Michal Herda, Poland Yukari Hafner, Shirakumo.org, Switzerland -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Jazz site: http://www.didierverna.com Other sites: http://www.didierverna.info

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[CfP] 17th European Lisp Symposium, May 6-7 2024, Vienna, Austria
by Didier Verna 19 Jan '24

19 Jan '24

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 17th European Lisp Symposium Call for Papers May 6-7 2024 Federal Computing Center, Vienna, Austria https://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/2024 Sponsored by EPITA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Important Dates ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - Submission deadline: Feb. 18 2024 - Author notification: Mar. 24 2024 - Final papers due: Apr. 14 2024 - Symposium: May 6-7 2024 Scope ~~~~~ The European Lisp Symposium is a premier forum for the discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, implementation, and application of any of the Lisp dialects, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, Clojure, Racket, ACL2, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, SKILL, Hy, Shen, Carp, Janet, uLisp, Picolisp, Gamelisp, TXR, and so on. We encourage everyone interested in Lisp to participate. The European Lisp Symposium invites high quality papers about novel research results, insights and lessons learned from practical applications, and educational perspectives. We also encourage submissions about known ideas as long as they are presented in a new setting and/or in a highly elegant way. Topics include but are not limited to: - context-, aspect-, domain-oriented and generative programming - macro-, reflective-, meta- and/or rule-based development approaches - language design and implementation - language integration, inter-operation, and deployment - development methodologies, support, and environments - educational approaches and perspectives - experience reports and case studies This year, we suggest an emphasis on best practices, approaches, and technologies for building highly recursive and self-adapting architectures, in particular for AI, ML, tool integration and instruction generation, using dynamic programming languages. Technical Program ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We invite submissions in the following forms. * Papers: technical papers of up to 8 pages that describe original results or explain known ideas in new and elegant ways. * Experience reports: papers of up to 6 pages describing a successful use of a Lisp dialect and/or analyzing obstacles that have kept it from working in practice. * Tutorials: abstracts of up to 4 pages for in-depth presentations about topics of special interest. * Demonstrations: abstracts of up to 4 pages for demonstrations of tools, libraries, and applications. All submissions should be formatted following the ACM SIGS guidelines and include ACM Computing Classification System 2012 concepts and terms. Submissions should be uploaded to Easy Chair, at the following link http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=els2024. Note: to help us with the review process please indicate the type of submission by entering either "paper", "demo", or "tutorial" in the Keywords field. Programme Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Giuseppe Attardi, University of Pisa, Italy Programme Committee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant, Untypable LLC Frederic Peschanski, UPMC/LIP6 Jay McCarthy, UMass Lowell Jim Newton, EPITA Research Lab Kai Selgrad, OTH Regensburg Mark Evenson, not.org Michael Raskin, LaBRI/CNRS UMR 5800, University of Bordeaux Robert Smith, HRL Laboratories LLC Robert P. Goldman, SIFT LLC Stefan Monnier, Université de Montréal Local Chair ~~~~~~~~~~~ Philipp Marek, BRZ, Vienna, Austria Virtualization Team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Georgiy Tugai, Configura, Sweden Michał Herda, Poland Yukari Hafner, Shirakumo.org, Switzerland -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Jazz site: http://www.didierverna.com Other sites: http://www.didierverna.info

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abcl.org/trac/* being spidered by multiple bots
by Erik Huelsmann 10 Jan '24

10 Jan '24

Hi Mark, Last night a number of disruptions in cliki.net availability were reported, a happens regularly lately -- and definitely during the weekly backup. So I checked the server this morning. The server had a load of 50 (>15 per cpu); 80% of that was going to Trac, however the access log trac.common-lisp.net_access.log was silent. Turns out all the traffic was on abcl.org. It was being spidered like crazy. Trac - or our server setup (or both) - really isn't up to that task, which is why there is only limited spidering allowed on trac.common-lisp.net. (Enough to spider "current" trunk of projects and their issues.) To restrict spidering, I've changed the robots.txt file at /project/armedbear/public_html/robots.txt. Could you please commit that robots.txt (or an even stricter one) to the repository that the site is being synced from? Thanks! Regards, Erik.

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Unwrapping Java Character to char
by Robert Dodier 05 Jan '24

05 Jan '24

Hi, is there a way to unwrap a Java boxed value to get the Java primitive value inside it? In particular I am interested in obtaining the char inside a Character, in order to supply the char to a method which requires a char. Thanks for any info, Robert

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