Hi,
First of all, Erik, thank you for mustering the energy to take care of this migration and inventorying of the lists. Does anyone volunteer to be part of a Mailing Lists Working Committee which can make a point of periodically inventorying and auditing these lists for spam, active moderators, etc? You would get all the technical support you need.
I note that some of these are still very much active projects but they've scattered elsewhere over the years, for example cl-pdf hosts their code at github and appears to communicate pretty much exclusively through github Issues. Even some active projects hosted at our own gitlab may be communicating through gitlab Issues or other means and thus not register any mailing list traffic through our mailman.
Anyway, if none of a particular project's mailing lists have been active in several years, then it's difficult to make any case for keeping said list active, in the face of the overhead costs Erik mentions, especially if they can be re-activated easily when needed. However, in the Common Lisp space-time continuum, five years is not all that long. I'd be curious what the numbers look like if you go back eight or even 10 years?
Erik, did you say that you sent verification emails to the list owners of these lists? Is the list owner by definition the only moderator, or can they assign other moderators? As I understand it, we can detect non-responsive moderators by seeing mails bounce to an admin account, is that right? If so, how can volunteers sign up to be privvy to those bounced mails and perhaps help to mitigate? Is that just another list to sign up for through the mailman3 web page?
One other question for Erik - are these active lists and archives publicly crawl-able? Because that brings up the whole question of what is CLF's position on serving up for free such content, which is under the stewardship of clnet infrastructure, to all comers, including the slew of neural net training hoovers which now apparently a permanent feature of life online. But that's a discussion for a different thread.
Thanks again!
Dave
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 7:24 AM Erik Huelsmann ehuels@gmail.com wrote:
All,
As part of the migration from Mailman2 to Mailman3, I have checked which lists are actively used. The outcome allows for some rigorous cleanup.
Out of 236 mailing lists, 180 have not had a mail added to their archives *over the last 5 years(!)*. My proposal is to decommission these mailing lists, meaning that only the archives will be migrated to Mailman3. These mailing lists can always be re-instated at a later time.
Rationale for this clean-up is that some owners of the mailing lists have fallen out of contact, causing additional work to fall on the shoulders of the site maintainers: mailing lists require moderation of non-member posts, where those moderation requests which can't be delivered to the list owner, are sent to the site admins. Additionally, unused mailing lists may accrue spam mail in their archives, lowering the value of the archive. (Temporarily) Closing mailing lists can prevent this.
What do you think?
It concerns these lists:
alexandria-cvs anaphora-cvs anaphora-devel ansi-test-cvs ansi-test-devel armedbear-announce armedbear-cvs asdf-install-devel asdf-packaging-announce aspiwork-pdm-cvs aspiwork-pdm-devel bese-devel bordeaux-threads-announce bordeaux-threads-ticket boston-lisp-announce boston-lisp-organizers cello-devel cells-gtk-devel cffi-objects-cvs cl-berkeley-db-devel cl-bzip2-devel cl-containers-devel cl-dbf-cvs cl-dwim-devel cl-ec2-devel cl-emb-devel cl-facebook-devel cl-fuse-devel cl-glpk-devel cl-graph-devel cl-gsl-devel cl-gtk2-devel cl-heap-announce cl-jpeg-devel cl-json-announce cl-kanren-trs-cvs cl-kanren-trs-devel cl-l10n-devel cl-monad-macros-cvs cl-mpi-devel cl-muproc-devel cl-ncurses-devel cl-neo4j-cvs cl-neo4j-devel cl-openid-devel cl-openid-ticket cl-org-mode-devel cl-pdf-announce cl-pdf-devel cl-perec-devel cl-plus-j-announce cl-plus-j-devel cl-plus-ssl-cvs cl-plus-ssl-devel cl-pop-devel cl-proc-devel cl-sbml-cvs cl-selenium-devel cl-smtp-devel cl-soap-devel cl-sqlite-announce cl-sqlite-devel cl-store-devel cl-table-cvs cl-twitter-devel cl-typesetting-announce cl-typesetting-devel cl-unification-devel cl-utilities-devel cl-walker-devel cl-xmlspam-devel cl-xmpp-devel cl-yacc-ebnf-devel clbuild-devel cldoc-devel cleric-announce cleric-devel clfswm-announce clfswm-cvs clfswm-devel climacs-devel climplayer-devel clonsigna-announce clonsigna-devel closer-announce closer-devel clouchdb-cvs clouchdb-devel clsql-fluid-devel clx-devel cmucl-ticket common-lisp-beginner-cvs de-setf-amqp-cvs definer-announce docudown-devel eager-future-devel ecl-readline-devel eclipse-devel editor-hints-devel elephant-devel elephant-ticket f2cl-ticket fetter-devel fiveam-announce fset-devel gecol-devel ginseng-cvs gsharp-devel gtk-cffi-cvs gtk-cffi-devel heresy-devel implementation-hackers iolib-announce iolib-devel ip-interfaces-devel isidorus-devel kpax-devel l-math-announce l-math-devel langutils-devel lgtk-devel lift-devel linedit-cvs linedit-devel lisp-interface-library-devel lisp-machine lispbox-cvs lispbox-devel lisplab-cvs lisplab-devel lisppaste-devel lisppaste-requests lispy-devel lmud-devel local-time-devel mel-base-devel metabang-bind-devel metacopy-devel metatilities-base-devel mit-cadr-cvs mod-lisp-devel movitz-devel names-and-paths-devel nixies-devel noctool-cvs oct-cvs oct-ticket pal-devel parenscript-announce pg-devel plexippus-xpath-devel protobuf-devel python-on-lisp-devel rfc2388-cvs rucksack-cvs rucksack-devel s-xml-devel sicl-announce sicl-devel slime-cvs snow-announce snow-cvs snow-devel spray-devel teepeedee2-devel the-feebs-war-devel tinaa-devel travisci trivial-backtrace-devel trivial-gray-streams-devel trivial-utf-8-devel uri-template-devel usocket-announce usocket-ticket vivace-graph-devel web4r-devel web4r-devel-ja xcvb-devel xuriella-devel zip-devel
-- Bye,
Erik.
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