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344 discussions

Re: [pro] Help with Rendering GUIs from Lisp
by akopa＠charter.net 20 May '11

20 May '11

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Vladimir Sedach wrote: > > Also, it appears someone has tried implementing a Morphic UI in CL > before: http://www.cliki.net/MorphiCL > Yeah, i saw that. It's kind of old and based on Squeak. The nice thing about mophic.js is that (for now at least) it's simpler than Squeak Morphic, but has enough functionality to be useful. Matt

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Re: [pro] Help with Rendering GUIs from Lisp
by Vladimir Sedach 19 May '11

19 May '11

I recommend going with Cairo. It has an interface very similar to <canvas>, and is really convenient for 2d graphics. I've used SDL before and am not a fan. If you want to support multiple OSes, you can save some time by delegating cross-platform window and input handling to GTK and just using the Cairo canvas it gives you (that's how the McCLIM GTK backend works). http://cliki.net/cl-cairo2 is the library to use, the original cl-cairo seems to have disappeared http://www.cliki.net/cl-gtk2 has GTK and Cairo bindings There's other GTK bindings listed at http://www.cliki.net/GTK%20binding Also, it appears someone has tried implementing a Morphic UI in CL before: http://www.cliki.net/MorphiCL Vladimir PS - Sorry for breaking threading with this reply; I've switched off digest mode and this shouldn't happen in the future.

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[pro] Help with Rendering GUIs from Lisp
by Matthew Swank 19 May '11

19 May '11

I am porting the Morphic GUI tool kit, Or more specifically the subset that is implemented in morphic.js: http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=34. I am a little overwhelmed by the options for rendering the GUI to screen. The JS implementation uses html5 canvas elements where Canvases, Images, and Contexts are rolled into or are part of the same object. In am a relative novice in graphics programming, so it's hard for me to differentiate among the merits of the various bindings available to common lisp to do this. However, using the html canvas code as guide, I am gravitating towards some sort of high level canvas that writes to a lower level back end (vecto -> lispbuilder-sdl, cl-cairo). Does anyone have guidance on the best way to approach this? Should I consider "raw" SDL surfaces, perhaps with SDL_ttf for font rendering? Is OpenGL a reasonable option for what is essentially a 2d environment? Matt

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[pro] XMLisp: a CCL + Cocoa/Cocotron based Lisp for Mac and Windows with built in media support (2D, 3D, sound, ...)
by Alexander Repenning 16 May '11

16 May '11

Dear All, we have been providing some funding to the Clozure and the Cocoton open source projects supporting the creation of a media rich cross platform environment called eXtreme Media Lisp or XMLisp for short. XMLisp, as such, is not the main goal of our project. The goal is to create a next generation authoring tool for kids to get excited about computational thinking. More about that BIG project here: http://scalablegamedesign.cs.colorado.edu/wiki/Scalable_Game_Design_wiki The real point of this message is to share our efforts in the hope that you can use some of the code and perhaps could even contribute by writing extensions, try the code on difference platforms etc. You can find the 0.5 version apps Mac and PC here: http://code.google.com/p/xmlisp/ Included are: 3D: Open Agent Engine: scene graph based mini engine, 3D objects, animation, drag and drop, mouse hovering, picking, selection, camera control, texture management. Full access to OpenGL functions including shaders (GLSL). 2D: controls: layout managers, buttons, sliders, text Media: Sound, Text-to-Speech (OS X only) Events: mouse, keyboard, multi touch, gestures (OS X 10.6 and later): pinch, rotate, scroll IDE a simple development environment including symbol completion to edit, run and debug code This should allow you to create an OS X native Cocoa app and port it with little effort to Windows. On the Windows side we are using Cocotron which is a very large library to provide Cocoa functionality. Especially for 3D there were and still are some issues left in Cocotron. It would be great if some of you could try to run especially the 3D samples on your windows machines and report back to use how well things are going. Particularly, some of the more advanced OpenGL functions such as shaders are much trickier to deal with on Window platforms running OpenGL. Generally speaking Microsoft is not putting a big effort in making sure OpenGL will run well on Window machines. Depending on what type of machine you have OpenGL may run much slower that it has to. With the right drivers and setting we find that OpenGL on Windows in XMLisp performs at about the same speed on the machines that we have tested on but extremely simple scenes, e.g., one triangle, Cocotron still has some buffer swapping overhead that we like to get addressed. Please play around with things and let us know how well (or badly) things are going. If you create some samples please send them. We could add them. The hemlock based IDE is still pretty crude but it works. all the best, Alex Prof. Alexander Repenning University of Colorado Computer Science Department Boulder, CO 80309-430 vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf

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[pro] Lisp for High Performance Transaction Processing is private
by Yakov Zaytsev 27 Apr '11

27 Apr '11

Hello, all Scott gave me a hint in previous topic and I've came across this interesting video by Daniel while googling. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xquJvmHF3S8 There are many links to it on the Internet, but it's marked as "private" now. I was disappointed :-( Do anybody have a copy or can give a hint how to watch the talk?

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[pro] multiple Lisp images
by Yakov Zaytsev 27 Apr '11

27 Apr '11

Hello, all I again have a scenario as follows. Say, you have an enterprise-y or CAD-y application. From one side, you extend it in Lisp. Be it a plugin (i.e. LISPWORKS:DELIVER with :DLL-EXPORTS) or standalone Lisp process which communicates with the application via some provided SDK APIs; these two cases do not actually differ for us. >From the other side, you have your own fat Lisp application which you want to communicate with the plugin. Example: NPAPI plugin provides data for later processing by big Lisp. Here is a problem arises. How to pass sexps as transparently between the two Lisps as possible? Yeah, I programmed in Erlang for some time. Basically, I want that kind of "transparency", though I don't thing that it definitely must be message passing between quasi-processes.. There are might be some variations but I guess you got the idea

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Re: [pro] lisp scientific computing libraries
by A.J. Rossini 19 Apr '11

19 Apr '11

My N-bits on the subject (speaking as an amateur maintainer and occassional developer of lisp-matrix, and doing a bit of non-lisp numerics/informatics/computation professionally): I'd probably go with GSLL if you need to "get the job done" , it has a range of numerical domains implemented (but requires GSL, algorithms/implementations are reasonable but not always world-class). Matlisp works, is stable, but needs a bit of cleanup/refinement/refactoring, and requires Lapack and a few other Fortran libraries, and uses it's own FFI approach for Fortran. I wish it had a Fortran-front end for CFFI implemented. But "it works". linear-algebra (on github, and see recent posts) looks like a clean package, lisp-only, and so far I like it very much, but havn't had as much experience with it as I have with the other 3 you mention, so havn't had time to suss-out any issues. I don't recall if it has quad-programming, if not you'd have to add on the quad-programming algorithm, but that isn't too hard (i.e. following a journal article, for an undefined "hard"). You could also go via R, through RCL (works well) or RCLG (which I maintain), and the quad programming packages for that system. Highly recommend R as a non-lisp system for scientific computing. It's only fault is that it isn't common lisp. Lisp-matrix is a work in progress. As much as I'm fond of it, I have a hard time recommending it. best, -tony On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:38 PM, R. Matthew Emerson <rme(a)clozure.com> wrote: > What's the state of scientific computing libraries in CL? > > There appear to be numerous projects that address this particular area > at different levels: > > * GSLL: http://common-lisp.net/project/gsll/ > * Matlisp: http://matlisp.sourceforge.net/ > * lisp-matrix: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-matrix/ > > and certainly more. > > If anyone on the list works in this area, I'd be interested to hear > about what libraries you are using. If you'd care to share any pros and > cons, that would also be appreciated. > > (As a bit of an aside, I will mention that one particular area of > interest is quadratic programming. > > The package at http://sigpromu.org/quadprog/ package looked interesting, > but it doesn't come with source any more, and is meant to work with > Matlab. > > If by some chance someone is familiar with this area, perhaps you could > offer some recommendations? > > Pretty much anything with a C header file would be pretty easy to use.) > > _______________________________________________ > pro mailing list > pro(a)common-lisp.net > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pro > -- best, -tony blindglobe(a)gmail.com Muttenz, Switzerland. "Commit early,commit often, and commit in a repository from which we can easily roll-back your mistakes" (AJR, 4Jan05). Drink Coffee: Do stupid things faster with more energy!

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[pro] Compiler APIs in Common Lisp
by Matthew Swank 13 Apr '11

13 Apr '11

I am current reading an interesting paper on Racket's macro system (referenced here: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4196 ), and some of the objects they expose quack like CLTL-2 Environments: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node102.html. I have read that having write access to environments makes it hard for the compiler to optimize code. However, even portable read only access would be helpful. Does anyone besides me and Cyrus Harmon (http://cyrusharmon.org/blog/display?id=113) miss Environments? Matt

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[pro] code organization and name conflicts
by Ryan Davis 13 Apr '11

13 Apr '11

When working on a larger lisp code base, one with 10+ files in one package, I begin to get nervous about accidental name conflicts, and was wondering how other people deal with this. Here's the scenario I'm worried about: * dsl.lisp, written by a coworker two years ago, has a number of small functions that are helpers for the main #'WRITE-DSL-REPORT function; one of these helpers is #'GET-WAN-IPS * nagios-config.lisp, written by me today, has a number of small functions that are helpers for the main #'WRITE-NAGIOS-CONFIG function; one of these helpers is #'GET-WAN-IPS * I miss the compiler warning about redefining #'GET-WAN-IPS * I test my code, it works in my REPL so I commit and call it a day * Code eventually gets pushed to production and #'WRITE-DSL-REPORT is broken It doesn't happen very often (and testing procedures usually catch stuff before it goes to production), but it seems like there should be a nicer way to deal with helper functions that you want to develop/test from the REPL, but don't need to be used outside the current file. I had a few ideas to solve it, none of which I really like. I could add a top-level FLET for the file, but the extra indentation will be annoying and it'll be harder to test/maintain those helper functions. I could define a helper package, per-file, and put my helper functions in that package (e.g. (defun nagios-config-helpers::get-wan-ips ...)), but that feels funny and awkward, which usually means it's a bad idea. I could break up my code into many smaller packages, each exporting and importing the functions needed elsewhere in the system, but that seems like recipe for dependency headaches and a lot of unneeded paperwork. Do other people have this anxiety? Are there elegant ways to deal with it? (besides medication and more unit testing) Thanks, -- Ryan Davis Acceleration.net Director of Programming Services 2831 NW 41st street, suite B Gainesville, FL 32606 Office: 352-335-6500 x 124 Fax: 352-335-6506

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[pro] PDM Review
by aashish atl 13 Apr '11

13 Apr '11

Hi, I am developer of aspiwork-pdm project that I moved to cl.net in Feb'11. Motivation for this project can be found on its devel mailing list. At present, application is a crude expression of what I intended to do. I spoke to some prospects in my locality. Most of the office owners agree that integration of their resources would be a great idea. Yet I am not sure if their hesitation purely relates to technical issues... I am not getting a satisfactory feedback. With this much, I have virtually not touched the code for weeks. I welcome your perspectives on this project. While comments on its actual code may suit project's own mailing list; here I seek some enlightenment on project's concept/design, utility in day to day scenario, acceptance of common lisp for such application... any other comment from your point of view. I see document management and process flow modules in a few 'cloud' services and upscale ERP installation. I am wondering if these are practical at smaller level with common lisp as a tool. I guess few of you must have implemented similar systems. Thanks. Regards -Aashish

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