Now that we've established why lisp.org and its friends are long-term off air...
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
- nick
I care, and am my company is willing to spend time and money to keep it and the ALU content on the air, so to speak. Frankly, it would be an honor.
I get that no one of note knows me and almost certainly no one knows of my company, so it'd be a stretch to trust me with anything, but the offer is there.
On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:35 PM Nick Levine nick@nicklevine.org wrote:
Now that we've established why lisp.org and its friends are long-term off air...
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
- nick
Clint,
Thanks for the offer. Let's talk offline about practical details.
More generally: I have a strong belief that alu.org if it continues to exist should be a site about the ALU (organises conferences, "etc" whatever that means) and that lisp.org should be a -- new -- site about Lisp, as in python.org. Ah, but there are several lisps, none quite the same. So would we have common.lisp.org etc (or equivalent naming schemes, I don't care)? Or would we say that racket and scheme and emacs lisp and so on already have functioning websites and it's just the Common Lisp community that's never got its act together? Or what?
- nick
On 12 Oct 2017, at 08:15, Clint Moore clint@ivy.io wrote:
I care, and am my company is willing to spend time and money to keep it and the ALU content on the air, so to speak. Frankly, it would be an honor.
I get that no one of note knows me and almost certainly no one knows of my company, so it'd be a stretch to trust me with anything, but the offer is there.
On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:35 PM Nick Levine nick@nicklevine.org wrote: Now that we've established why lisp.org and its friends are long-term off air...
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
- nick
Hey,
for your information, there is such website (featuring Common Lisp) created by third-party developer Fernando Borretti. It may be found here: http://lisp-lang.org/ . Having lisp.org pointing at the same host would be an improvement.
I think that getting in touch with him is a good idea – adding to CC.
Best regards,
Daniel
On 12.10.2017 08:48, Nick Levine wrote:
Clint,
Thanks for the offer. Let's talk offline about practical details.
More generally: I have a strong belief that alu.org http://alu.org if it continues to exist should be a site about the ALU (organises conferences, "etc" whatever that means) and that lisp.org http://lisp.org should be a -- new -- site about Lisp, as in python.org http://python.org. Ah, but there are several lisps, none quite the same. So would we have common.lisp.org http://common.lisp.org etc (or equivalent naming schemes, I don't care)? Or would we say that racket and scheme and emacs lisp and so on already have functioning websites and it's just the Common Lisp community that's never got its act together? Or what?
- nick
On 12 Oct 2017, at 08:15, Clint Moore <clint@ivy.io mailto:clint@ivy.io> wrote:
I care, and am my company is willing to spend time and money to keep it and the ALU content on the air, so to speak. Frankly, it would be an honor.
I get that no one of note knows me and almost certainly no one knows of my company, so it'd be a stretch to trust me with anything, but the offer is there.
On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:35 PM Nick Levine <nick@nicklevine.org mailto:nick@nicklevine.org> wrote:
Now that we've established why lisp.org <http://lisp.org> and its friends are long-term off air... The website at lisp.org <http://lisp.org> contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message? In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org <http://python.org>, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language. Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change? - nick
Dnia 2017-10-12, czw o godzinie 10:42 +0200, Daniel Kochmański pisze:
Hey,
for your information, there is such website (featuring Common Lisp) created by third-party developer Fernando Borretti. It may be found here: http://lisp-lang.org/ . Having lisp.org pointing at the same host would be an improvement.
It is very nice looking page, but it has very little content. Wiki part is a only a small subset of what is available on http://cliki.net, other parts do not show much activity.
Does the author(s) actively maintains it, or has he suffered from less interesting outside Lisp occupations ;-)?
Original ALU website contained a lot of documentation material: tutorials, articles etc. Would it be possible to move it there?
Sorry for responding after a month, but I too suffer from overwork outside of my favorite subjects.
Best regards,
Zbyszek Jurkiewicz
Hi,
The wiki is mostly empty because I foolishly expected people would be motivated to contribute articles to a newer, more complete, better-looking website. As for other content, there's a style guide http://lisp-lang.org/style-guide/, a collection of Lisp success stories http://lisp-lang.org/success/, Lisp books http://lisp-lang.org/books/, and a tutorial page http://lisp-lang.org/learn/getting-started/. However, that last one appears to be broken now -- I'll have to look into the build to see what's up.
Having lisp.org point to lisp-lang.org would be nice. Though I think focusing on the plumbing is more important than the façade: having more content, especially for the wiki, is more important than a shorter domain.
Cordially, Fernando Borretti
On 17 November 2017 at 09:58, zbyszek zbyszek@mimuw.edu.pl wrote:
Dnia 2017-10-12, czw o godzinie 10:42 +0200, Daniel Kochmański pisze:
Hey,
for your information, there is such website (featuring Common Lisp) created by third-party developer Fernando Borretti. It may be found here: http://lisp-lang.org/ . Having lisp.org pointing at the same host would be an improvement.
It is very nice looking page, but it has very little content. Wiki part is a only a small subset of what is available on http://cliki.net, other parts do not show much activity.
Does the author(s) actively maintains it, or has he suffered from less interesting outside Lisp occupations ;-)?
Original ALU website contained a lot of documentation material: tutorials, articles etc. Would it be possible to move it there?
Sorry for responding after a month, but I too suffer from overwork outside of my favorite subjects.
Best regards,
Zbyszek Jurkiewicz
Once upon a time, lisp.org hosted CLHS as http://www.lisp.org/HyperSpec and MOP as http://www.lisp.org/mop. CLHS is now at http://clhs.lisp.se/ and mop at http://mop.lisp.se/www.alu.org/mop/. (yes, there are other locations - http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/ http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/html/hyperspec/HyperSp... http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/ but the "lisp.org" URLs have a certain "vendor-independence" and "permanence" - yeah, right - flavor).
It would be nice if lisp-lang.org hosted CLHS and MOP.
Thanks.
-- Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on darwin Ns 10.3.1504 http://steingoldpsychology.com http://www.childpsy.net http://think-israel.org http://iris.org.il http://americancensorship.org http://no2bds.org Marriage is the sole cause of divorce.
Hi all,
Nick is pointing to a big elephant in the room.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017, Nick Levine wrote:
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
For years, there was talk of developing lisp.org to become a friendly portal for all Lisp dialects. The basic idea was to structure the site in a useful way for a few key groups, roughly young beginners, seasoned developers, and managers.
Students and young developers would get directed towards educational programs and their associated ecosystems. More advanced developers would get guidance on how to choose the right dialect and implementation for their focus, pointers to educational resources, pointers to support groups, a jobs forum, etc. Managers would get business success stories, explanations of the value proposition of Lisp, professional contacts, etc. A generic section would also cover topics like "what features are common in Lisp languages?" (NOT "what is a Lisp?"), present common history like the Lisp family tree, have directories of websites, books, and journals, etc.
There were multiple false starts at accomplishing this. Tim Daly had a friend build one prototype. He presented many good ideas but there were some strong points of contention. After this, I tried addressing those issues, circulating a site outline, and there was talk of how we might contributors from the various dialects. etc.
Two key challenges: (1) Assemble a community around lisp.org (not common-lisp.net or schemers.org or racket-lang.org or clojure.org or ...). (2) Find someone with the experience and energy to make this happen.
Funding was not the issue. Server technology was a distracting issue.
- Daniel
-
Anton Vodonosov -
Clint Moore -
Daniel Herring -
Daniel Kochmański -
Fernando Borretti -
Nick Levine -
Sam Steingold -
zbyszek