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Re: [chicago-lisp] (no subject)
by dkixk＠earthlink.net 09 Dec '06

09 Dec '06

-----Original Message----- >From: John Quigley <jquigley(a)jquigley.com> >Sent: Dec 8, 2006 2:20 PM >To: Chicago LISP <chicago-lisp(a)common-lisp.net> >Subject: Re: [chicago-lisp] (no subject) > >dkixk(a)earthlink.net wrote: >> This has nothing to do with "highly optimized code" in the sense of C being optimized. > >Yea, that was a poor statement on my part, and was meant as a mildly >sarcastic remark ('mildly,' because I do system development in C, and I >do like the language). > >The point I didn't take time to develop in that email: that a Lisp's >lack of tail-call optimization at the compiler level isn't an important >issue for me. Nor does it prevent me from writing code in a functional >way. While it puts more responsibility on the developer, having the >choice of using standard recursion can be beneficial (if you want >complete stack back-traces, for instance). I totally agree. Whatever does or does not happen at the compiler level is not important. What I do think is important is whether or not one style is limited within the framework of the language I'm using. So to try and put an end to this debate once and for all, let's try an objective experiment. PG-USER> ;;;; Compile file d:/tmp/duff.lisp ... ;;; Compiling file d:\tmp\duff.lisp ; While compiling REPL-WITH-LOOP: Warning: Variable DUFF-*** is never used. ;;; Writing fasl file d:\tmp\duff.fasl ;;; Fasl write complete PG-USER> (with-open-file (s "duff.lisp") (loop for line = (read-line s nil) while line do (princ line) (terpri))) (in-package :pg-user) (defun duff-user-input () "(make-array (expt 10 4) :initial-element 0)") (defun repl-with-loop () (handler-case (loop for duff-*** = nil then duff-** for duff-** = nil then duff-* for duff-* = (eval (read-from-string (duff-user-input))) finally (return-from repl-with-loop :not-limited)) (error () :limited))) (defun repl-with-funk (&optional duff-* duff-** duff-***) (declare (ignore duff-***)) (handler-case (repl-with-funk (eval (read-from-string (duff-user-input))) duff-* duff-**) (condition () :limited) (:no-error (x) (or x :not-limited)))) NIL PG-USER> (time (repl-with-funk)) ; cpu time (non-gc) 40 msec user, 0 msec system ; cpu time (gc) 381 msec user, 0 msec system ; cpu time (total) 421 msec user, 0 msec system ; real time 481 msec ; space allocation: ; 12,512 cons cells, 14,344,840 other bytes, 0 static bytes :LIMITED PG-USER> (time (eq * (repl-with-loop))) ... but I still don't have the answer to whether or not (eq (repl-with-funk) (repl-with-loop)). I have no evidence yet with which to try and convince you so I'll just forget about it until I know the result. My intuition that tail-call elimination is somehow fundamental to a functional functional style in a "lisp" will have to remain conjecture. Either way, nothing prevents you from writing funktional code but I'll keep using things like loop. Again, until that computation finishes. For now, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Re: [chicago-lisp] (no subject)
by dkixk＠earthlink.net 08 Dec '06

08 Dec '06

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[chicago-lisp] Group Name
by David Douthitt 08 Dec '06

08 Dec '06

> * Chicago Area Programming Languages Group (Chicago APL Group) > * Chicago Area Many Languages Group (CAML Group) Gasp! You actually included these ;-) CAML is a different computer language entirely, as is APL.... No relations to LISP...

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[chicago-lisp] IRC anyone?
by John Quigley 08 Dec '06

08 Dec '06

Anyone hang on IRC? I'm in #lisp(a)irc.oftc.net (oftc is similar to freenode in it's mission, however it's run much more professionally). Feel free to drop in and chat, it's pretty lonely in here. - John Quigley

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[chicago-lisp] Project: website
by John Quigley 04 Dec '06

04 Dec '06

Folks: Alright, so all of the meeting attendees seemed to be in agreement with one another on the idea of collaborating on some kind of web software to get our site operational. We'd be interested in getting confirmation from those of you who couldn't join us physically this past Saturday. Now, I don't know very much about web development, particularly in the context of Lisp, so I'm looking forward to gaining better insight. My first question: everyone seemed interested in AllegroServe, and there were no mentions of mod_lisp. Any reasons for this, aside from the fact that Allegro is itself written in Lisp? - John Quigley

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[chicago-lisp] LISP Gardeners
by David Douthitt 04 Dec '06

04 Dec '06

The list of projects is at the ALU site: http://wiki.alu.org/Gardeners_Projects

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[chicago-lisp] quoted list modification-- "let" does not protect values
by David Riggs 03 Dec '06

03 Dec '06

Dear Lispers, I want to have an alist to keep track of occurances of items in a buffer I am searching. So I define a function to do that, and start off with a "let" to set an alist with the strings I am searching for, setting the crd to zero for each. But each time I invoke the function, the old values of the cdr are remembered. For example (defun mytest () (interactive) (let ((dot '("a" . 0)) (n 0)) (setcdr dot (1+ (cdr dot))) (setq n (1+ n)) (print dot)(print n) )) Will increase output ("a" . 1) 1, then ("a" . 2) 1 etc, increasing by one each call (though the "n" value is always reset to 0). If I change the let to be (let ((dot (cons "a" 0)) (n 0)) Then it works as expected, resetting to zero each time. Why does a function which sets a let declaired variable to a quoted alist not reset to inittial value each time it is called? Clearly I am quite unclear about something very fundamental. Would anyone like to straighten me out? Thanks, David Riggs, Oberlin Ohio

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[chicago-lisp] First Call for Papers: TFP 2007, New York
by TFP 2007 01 Dec '06

01 Dec '06

CALL FOR PAPERS Trends in Functional Programming 2007 New York, USA April 2-4, 2007 http://cs.shu.edu/tfp2007/ OR http://tltc.shu.edu/tfp2007/ The symposium on Trends in Functional Programming (TFP) is an international forum for researchers with interests in all aspects of functional programming languages, focusing on providing a broad view of current and future trends in Functional Programming. It aspires to be a lively environment for presenting the latest research results through acceptance by extended abstracts. A formal post-symposium refereeing process then selects the best articles presented at the symposium for publication in a high-profile volume. TFP 2007 is co-hosted by Seton Hall University and The City College of New York (CCNY) and will be held in New York, USA, April 2-4, 2007 at the CCNY campus. SCOPE OF THE SYMPOSIUM The symposium recognizes that new trends may arise through various routes. As part of the Symposium's focus on trends we therefore identify the following five article categories. High-quality articles are solicited in any of these categories: Research Articles leading-edge, previously unpublished research work Position Articles on what new trends should or should not be Project Articles descriptions of recently started new projects Evaluation Articles what lessons can be drawn from a finished project Overview Articles summarizing work with respect to a trendy subject Articles must be original and not submitted for simultaneous publication to any other forum. They may consider any aspect of functional programming: theoretical, implementation-oriented, or more experience-oriented. Applications of functional programming techniques to other languages are also within the scope of the symposium. Articles on the following subject areas are particularly welcomed: o Dependently Typed Functional Programming o Validation and Verification of Functional Programs o Debugging for Functional Languages o Functional Programming and Security o Functional Programming and Mobility o Functional Programming to Animate/Prototype/Implement Systems from Formal or Semi-Formal Specifications o Functional Languages for Telecommunications Applications o Functional Languages for Embedded Systems o Functional Programming Applied to Global Computing o Functional GRIDs o Functional Programming Ideas in Imperative or Object-Oriented Settings (and the converse) o Interoperability with Imperative Programming Languages o Novel Memory Management Techniques o Parallel/Concurrent Functional Languages o Program Transformation Techniques o Empirical Performance Studies o Abstract/Virtual Machines and Compilers for Functional Languages o New Implementation Strategies o any new emerging trend in the functional programming area If you are in doubt on whether your article is within the scope of TFP, please contact the TFP 2007 program chair, Marco T. Morazan, at tfp2007(a)shu.edu. SUBMISSION AND DRAFT PROCEEDINGS Acceptance of articles for presentation at the symposium is based on the review of extended abstracts (6 to 10 pages in length) by the program committee. Accepted abstracts are to be completed to full papers before the symposium for publication in the draft proceedings and on-line. Further details can be found at the TFP 2007 website. POST-SYMPOSIUM REFEREEING AND PUBLICATION In addition to the draft symposium proceedings, we intend to continue the TFP tradition of publishing a high-quality subset of contributions in the Intellect series on Trends in Functional Programming. IMPORTANT DATES Abstract Submission: February 1, 2007 Notification of Acceptance: February 20, 2007 Registration Deadline: March 2, 2007 Camera Ready Full Paper Due: March 9, 2007 TFP Symposium: April 2-4, 2007 PROGRAMME COMMITTEE John Clements California Polytechnic State University, USA Marko van Eekelen Radboud Universiteit Nijmegen, The Netherlands Benjamin Goldberg New York University, USA Kevin Hammond University of St. Andrews, UK Patricia Johann Rutgers University, USA Hans-Wolfgang Loidl Ludwig-Maximilians Universität München, Germany Rita Loogen Philipps-Universität Marburg, Germany Greg Michaelson Heriot-Watt University, UK Marco T. Morazán (Chair) Seton Hall University, USA Henrik Nilsson University of Nottingham, UK Chris Okasaki United States Military Academy at West Point, USA Rex Page University of Oklahoma, USA Ricardo Pena Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Spain Benjamin C. Pierce University of Pennsylvania, USA John Reppy University of Chicago, USA Ulrik P. Schultz University of Southern Denmark, Denmark Clara Segura Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Spain Jocelyn Sérot Université Blaise Pascal, France Zhong Shao Yale University, USA Olin Shivers Georgia Institute of Technology, USA Phil Trinder Heriot-Watt University, UK David Walker Princeton University, USA ORGANIZATION Symposium Chair: Henrik Nilsson, University of Nottingham, UK Programme Chair: Marco T. Morazan, Seton Hall University, USA Treasurer: Greg Michaelson, Heriot-Watt University, UK Local Arrangements: Marco T. Morazan, Seton Hall University, USA ************************************************************************************ Dr. Marco T. Morazan TFP 2007 Program Committee Chair http://tltc.shu.edu/tfp2007/ http://cs.shu.edu/tfp2007/

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[chicago-lisp] Let's organize: meeting 2006-12-02 @ 3p
by John Quigley 29 Nov '06

29 Nov '06

Hey Folks: I'm interested in taking charge of this group and giving it some direction. I've been subscribed to this list for a few months, and haven't seen any activity. I'm really interested in hanging out with some Lisp hackers, and I think it's a shame that there's no activity here. In this vein, I'm inviting everyone interested to make it out next Saturday, 2006-12-02 @ 3p, to a pilot meeting at the Chicago Institute of Design. I operate the Chicago LUG, and have access to a really beautiful meeting space (4 big conference rooms, 20 white boards, projector, the works). I'd like to run The Chicago LUG meeting concurrently; I'll be making a presentation (to both the Lisp and LUG groups) on setting up a good Lisp development environment (Slime, etc.) as an introduction for newer developers. The Chicago LUG has a number of functional developers (Erlang, Haskell and Lisp predominantly), so I'm trying to bootstrap the Lisp group by harnessing interest within the LUG. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'd love to hear them. Please try to make it out, and RSVP if you're able to attend. If enough people show interest, we can have a forum after the presentation to plan things out. I'm willing to invest my time in starting/operating a web site, etc., but I want to make sure I'm not alone in wanting to make something of this group. Regards, John Quigley http://www.chicagolug.org/~jquigley/

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[chicago-lisp] Newsgroup Traffic
by David Douthitt 28 Nov '06

28 Nov '06

An interesting aside: I subscribe to several language Usenet newsgroups. LISP is one of the most active groups - consider (in my current reading): awk: 610 eiffel: 27 forth: 1834 perl: 12 ruby: 9178 postscript: 294 java: 96 smalltalk: 327 tcl: 2917 lisp: 3370 Only comp.lang.ruby is more active (in my list). So where is everybody? :-O PS: No, I'm not fluent in all those ;-) And no, I'm not subscribed to comp.lang.c or similar.

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